[ungelöst] Family Birth Certificates and Registry 1900-1903

[DavidSkudlarek]

Requesting some help in translating these three birth certificates and family registry entry from Horst-Gelsenkirchen in 1900-1903.
Particularly interested in the parents registry entry because I am still trying to learn about the history of my great grand parents.

Many thanks

David

[Gastonian]

Hi David:

The first image is their registration card (in Germany even today, every time you move you have to register yourself and your family with the local authorities). I read it (translated into English) as follows:

Chachulski, Josef, miner, Catholic, [born] Kielpin 18 Nov '71 [! - marriage certificate says '73], Pr[ussian] citizen
Chachulski nee Krukowski, Julianna, wife, Catholic, [born] Ruhwalde 6 [! - marriage certificate says the 24th] Aug '75, Pr[ussian] citizen
Chachulski, Maria, child, Catholic, [born] Horst 2 Feb 1900, Pr[ussian] citizen
Chachulski, Julia, child, Catholic, [born] Horst 6 Sep 1901, Pr[ussian] citizen
Chachulski, Josef, child, Catholic, [born] Horst 26 Apr 1903, Pr[ussian] citizen

The additional piece of paper in that image lists their addresses in Horst; I do not know the local geography well enough to decipher these.

Regards

--Carl-Henry

[DavidSkudlarek]

Thanks Carl!

[AlfredS]

The additional piece of paper in that image lists their addresses in Horst; I do not know the local geography well enough to decipher these.

I think the address Horst is located in Eastern Prussia

and - on the additional piece of paper - the addresses are:

Schüttlakerstr. 37 (in Gelsenkirchen - Westphalia)
Deven(s)str. 8 (in Bottrop - Westphalia)

In the last column the landlord can be found (Eichholz, Krochnowski?)

[ReReBe]

I think the address Horst is located in Eastern Prussia

Sorry AlfredS, this birthplace Horst is not locatetd in Eastern Prussia, but in the Prussian Province of Westphalia.
Horst has been arround 1900 an independent municipality and is today an urban district of the city Gelsenkirchen.
Horst (Gelsenkirchen) – GenWiki
Gelsenkirchen im Blick

Regards
Reiner

[AlfredS]

OK Reiner,
I should have read the marriage certificate also ... sorry for confusion!

Now, I also understand the abbreviation "Bgm." with Josef -> not "Bgm." = Bürgermeister but "Bgm." = Bergmann

[Gastonian]

Hi David:

Turning now to the birth certificates, I read the first one as:

Horst am 29. April 1903
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute, der Persönlichkeit
nach bekannt,
der Bergmann Josef Chachulski
wohnhaft in Horst Devensstraße No 8
katholischer Religion, und zeigte an, daß von der
Julie Chachulski geborenen Krukowski,
seiner Ehefrau,
katholischer Religion,
wohnhaft bei ihm,
zu Horst in seiner Wohnung
am sechsundzwanzigsten April des Jahres
tausend neunhundert drei Vormittags
um drei Uhr ein Knabe
geboren worden sei und daß das Kind den Vornamen
Josef
erhalten habe.
Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschrieben
Josef Chachulski
Der Standesbeamte
In Vertretung
[Unterschrift]

In English:

Horst, 29 April 1903
Before the undersigned civil registry official appeared today, known
personally,
the miner Josef Chachulski
resident in Horst, Devensstraße Nr. 8,
Catholic, and declared that to
Julie Chachulski nee Krukowski,
his wife,
Catholic,
living with him
in his residence in Horst
on 26 April of the year
1903 at
3 a.m. a boy
was born and that the child received the forename
Josef.
Read out, approved, and signed
Josef Chachulski
The civil registry official
Represented by
[signature]


By the way, since you got these entries from the main civil register that is now kept at the city archive in Gelsenkirchen, the signature of Josef Chachulski is his actual signature and not just a copy, as in the marriage entry.

And this is what Devensstraße 8 looks like today (though I suspect the apartment building is from the 1950s): https://maps.app.goo.gl/9uPLwxKLcgkc8erV8

Regards

--Carl-Henry

[DavidSkudlarek]

Thats incredible, Carl. Does a civil registry in Germany have the records that show how long a family lived in a city like Horst? We know that Julianne and Josef married in 1899 in Horst. The Chachulski family of five emigrated in September, 1903, departure from Antwerp on September 5, 1903 on the SS Vaderland arriving at New York City on September 14, 1903.

Many thanks for all those who contributed to this

David

[Gastonian]

Hi David:

There are two separate offices involved here. One is the civil registry office (in German Standesamt), which conducted marriages and certified births and deaths - that is the source of your birth and marriage certificates. The other is the local registration office (in German Meldeamt), where you had to register whenever you moved, and which produced the family registration card that is the first document you have above. Theoretically speaking you had to unregister yourself at the Meldeamt when you moved away (called Abmelden in German), and I have seen family registration cards where the date of unregistration is marked (including the one of my own family when we emigrated in 1980) - but I don't see a column for that in this one from Horst.

To continue with the birth certificates, here is the second one:

Horst am 5. Februar 1900.
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute, der Persönlichkeit
nach bekannt,
der Bergmann Josef Chachulski
wohnhaft in Horst No 94 [superscript] 1
katholischer Religion, und zeigte an, daß von der
Julianna Chachulski, geborenen Kru-
kowski, seiner Ehefrau,
katholischer Religion,
wohnhaft bei ihm,
zu Horst in seiner Wohnung
am zweiten Februar des Jahres
tausend neunhundert Nachmittags
um acht Uhr ein Mädchen
geboren worden sei und daß das Kind den Vornamen
Maria
erhalten habe.
Vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschrieben
Josef Chachulski
Der Standesbeamte
In Vertretung
[Unterschrift]

In English:

Horst, 5 February 1900
Before the undersigned civil registry official appeared today, known
personally,
the miner Josef Chachulski
resident in Horst Nr. 94, floor 1,
Catholic, and declared that to
Julie Chachulski nee Kru-
kowski, his wife,
Catholic,
living with him
in his residence in Horst
on 2 February of the year
1900 at
8 p.m. a girl
was born and that the child received the forename
Maria.
Read out, approved, and signed
Josef Chachulski
The civil registry official
Represented by
[signature]


Regards

--Carl-Henry

[DavidSkudlarek]

For Carl Henry and any others who would like to contribute,

I have received two documents originating in Horst-Gelsenkirchen about my maternal great grandparents Josef and Juianne Chachulski. There are factual differences between the two documents around birthdates and locations.

Josef Chachulski: Marriage certificate says born 18 Oct 1873, Kielpin. Civil registry says born 8 Nov 1871, Kielpin
Julianne nee Krukowski: Marriage certificate says born 24 Aug 1875, Wiggoda. Civil registry says born 6 Aug 1875, Ruhwalde

Advice on how/whether to reconcile the differences in these facts.
Most concerned with the birthplace of Julianne. According to marriage certificate her father Friedrich Krukowski was a resident of Wiggoda. Mother Brigitta nee Szepanski was a resident of Ruhwalde.

--David

[Gastonian]

Hello David:

User Aalerich already provided a link to the location of Wiggoda/Ruhwalde: https://forum.ahnenforschung.net/for...37#post2905737

Attached is a snippet from the map.

In essence, Wiggoda was the name of a colony in the village of Ruhwalde - they were pretty much the same place

Since Julianna was born in 1875, there should be a civil registry birth certificate for her from the Standesamt Marienfelde Bezirk Danzig - I do not know whether the registries have been preserved, but you may want to ask in the forum Ost- und Westpreußen.

Josef's birth is before the civil registry system was established, so you would have to rely on a baptismal entry from the Catholic church books. If these still exist, they would be in a Polish archive; again ask in the forum Ost- und Westpreußen where you might find it.

--Carl-Henry

[ReReBe]

Since Julianna was born in 1875, there should be a civil registry birth certificate for her from the Standesamt Marienfelde Bezirk Danzig - I do not know whether the registries have been preserved, but you may want to ask in the forum Ost- und Westpreußen.

Hello,

here is the birth certificate for Julie Krukowski, born 21.8.1875 in Wigodda district of Osterode: Jednostka - Szukaj w Archiwach

Remark:
Mother Brigitte Krukowski is widow of Friedrich Krukowski who died in 1875.
She lived in the house of her father in law Gottlieb Krukowski, father of Friedrich Krukowski.
Gottlieb K. reports the birth at the civil registry office on 28.8.1875.

P.S.
Zespół - Szukaj w Archiwach Standesamt Marienfelde Bezirk Danzig

Regards
Reiner

[Gastonian]

Hello David

Transcription of the birth certificate found by Reiner:

Peterswalde am 28ten August 1875.
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute,
der Person nach bekannt
der Einwohner Gottlieb Krukowski
wohnhaft zu Wigodda, Kreis Osterode,
katholischer Religion
und zeigte an, daß von der Brigitte Krukowski geborene
Szipanski seiner Schwiegertochter
katholischer Religion
wohnhaft bei dem Anzeigenden,
zu Wigodda, Kreis Osterode in seiner Wohnung
am ein und zwanzigsten August
des Jahres tausend acht hundert siebenzig und fünf
Morgens um sechs Uhr
ein Kind weiblichen Geschlechts geboren worden sei, welches
Vornamen
Julie erhalten habe
Vorgelesen, genehmigt und wegen Schreibensunkunde
mit dem Handzeichen des Anzeigenden
versehen + + +
Der Standesbeamte
[Unterschrift]
Vermerk
den 25. October 1875 eine
Geburts Urkunde aus-
gefertigt und der Brigitte
Krukowski ...gehändigt
der Standesbeamte
Oberbeckmann
Vermerk
Die Brigitte Krukowski
ist die Wittwe des im
Jahre 1875 verstorbenen
Einwohners Frdr Krukowski
der Standesbeamte
Oberbeckmann

In English
Peterswalde 28 August 1875
Before the undersigning civil registry official appeared today
known personally
the resident Gottlieb Krukowski
resident of Wigodda, county Osterode,
Catholic
and declared, that of Brigitte Krukowski nee
Szipanski, his daughter-in-law
Catholic
resident with him
in Wigodda, county Osterode in his residence
on 21 August
of the year 1875
a female child was born, which
received the forename
Julie.
Read out, approved, and (due to lack of writing ability)
with the mark of the declarer
marked: + + +
The civil registry official
[signature]
Note
On 25 October 1875 a
birth certificate was prepared
and given to Brigitte
Krukowski
The civil registry official
Oberbeckmann
Note
Brigitte Krukowski
is the widow of
the resident Frdr. [Friedrich] Krukowski
deceased 1875
The civil registry official
Oberbeckmann


Regards

--Carl-Henry

[DavidSkudlarek]

Thank you Carl and Reiner.

Is Julianne's official birthdate 21 August or 28 August when it was reported to the civil registry?

--David

[ReReBe]

Is Julianne's official birthdate 21 August or 28 August when it was reported to the civil registry?

Juli Krukowski was born on 21. August 1875.

Regards
Reiner