Trying to confirm birthplaces of Chachulski and Krukowski

[DavidSkudlarek]

Second post to this site. This couple emigrated to the US in 1903.
User hschmauck kindly found this entry for the marriage certificate of the couple.
I am seeking to confirm the birthplaces for Joseph Chachulski and Julie Krukowski.

Many thanks for any help with this


Joseph Chachulski

(profession: miner)

* 18.10.1873 Kielpin (I think in "Löbau county" in West Prussia, today called Kiełpin/Człuchów/Poland)

Father:

Valentin Chachulski

Mother:

Marianna Weslowska

(?)

oo 08.05.1899 at registry of (Gelsenkirchen-) Horst with

Julie Krukowski

* 08/24/1875 Wiggodda (I think in "Schwetz county" in West Prussia, today called Wygoda, cz. Tlenia/Poland near to Świecie/Schwetz)

Father:

Friedrich Krukowski

Mother:

Brigitta Chepanski

(?)

https://www.landesarchiv-nrw.de/data...2322_00084.jpg






https://www.landesarchiv-nrw.de/data...2322_00085.jpg

[Gastonian]

Hallo allerseits:

Transkription der Heiratsurkunde hier: https://forum.ahnenforschung.net/for...rtificate-1899

VG

--Carl-Henry

[Aalerich]

Kielpin (it does not say Kreis Löbau anywhere, but this one seems the most likely, not 100% certain)

https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/10958009

https://maps.app.goo.gl/YXgBHfhnG64Qxzk86

Wigodda/Ruhwalde (not "Kuhwalde" as transcribed, this is close to 100% certainty)
https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20650049 (look at map view, below the marker)

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VMhLikZahjyQ5tyy9

[DavidSkudlarek]

Seeking clarification on where to look for birth records of Josef Chachulski and Julianne Krukowski.

I have received two documents originating in Horst-Gelsenkirchen about my maternal great grandparents Josef and Juianne Chachulski. There are some factual differences between the two documents around birthdates.

Josef Chachulski: Marriage certificate says born 18 Oct 1873, Kielpin. Gelsenkirchen Civil registry says born 8 Nov 1871, Kielpin. Parents were Valentin Chachulski and Marianna nee Weslowska.
Julianne nee Krukowski: Marriage certificate says born 24 Aug 1875, Wiggoda. Gelsenkirchen Civil registry says born 6 Aug 1875, Ruhwalde. Wiggoda/Ruhwalde is the same location. Parents were Friedrich Krukowski and Brigitta nee Szepanski.

The transcription of the marriage certificate is in post #2 of this topic.


Moderator Carl Henry offers this about the birth records of Josef Chachulski and Julianne Krukowski from a different thread:

Since Julianna was born in 1875, there should be a civil registry birth certificate for her from the Standesamt Marienfelde Bezirk Danzig - I do not know whether the registries have been preserved, but you may want to ask in the forum Ost- und Westpreußen.

Josef's birth is before the civil registry system was established, so you would have to rely on a baptismal entry from the Catholic church books. If these still exist, they would be in a Polish archive; again ask in the forum Ost- und Westpreußen where you might find it.

Thanks for the help

--David

[Gastonian]

Hello everyone:

The birth recordf for Julie Krukowski has already been found here: https://forum.ahnenforschung.net/for...47#post2909647

Now all we need are the Catholic church books for Kielpin, Kreis Löbau, for the baptism of Josef Chachulski either 1871 or 1873.

--Carl-Henry

[LuxFluens]

Good morning,

I've quickly checked the available church books of Mroczno (which is where Kielpin belonged to), but the only Joseph Chachulski was born on 21/03/1871 in Kielpin to Joseph Chachulski and Anna Wisniewski:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZQT-Z62N?lang=de

Would it be possible that the information on Joseph and his parents on the civil registry documents is simply incorrect? I've had a similar problem on an ancestor's death certificate from Wattenscheid, the parents' names were entirely wrong and the birth date deviated as well (though only by a day). Ever since, I've been careful to take the information on civil registry documents with a grain of salt.

Kind regards,
Moritz

[Gastonian]

Hello Moritz:

Thank you for locating the correct churchbook and that entry.

Unfortunately, that cannot be the right Joseph Chachulski - our Joseph's parents were stated on his marriage certificate to be a Valentin and an Anna nee Weslowska. This Joseph Chachulski born on 21 March 1871 appears to be the one who died in Erie County, New York, in 1958 (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...zef-chachulski) and had been married to an Anna nee Imbierowski (https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...cha/169986105/) - our Joseph's wife (and mother of his children) was a Julie/Julianna nee Krukowski.

The parents of our Joseph, namely Valentin Chachulski and Marianna Wesołowska (this contains the Polish "L with a stroke", which familysearch incorrectly transcribed as a "t"), do occur in this churchbook as the parents of a Johann, born 26 November 1870 in Kielpin (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...9M-CSZ5-99N3-5).

This baptismal register only goes through December 1872, so if our Joseph was born to Valentin Chachulski in 1873 as stated in his marriage record, the record would be missing.

The erroneous information of 1871 as his birthdate comes not from a Standesamtlicher Eintrag, but rather from his Meldekarte in Horst (now part of Gelsenkirchen).

Regards

--Carl-Henry

[ReReBe]

Hello,

and here Grodziczno. Kirchliche Heiratsurkunden we find the marriage of Josef Chachulskis parents
Scan 83/110, marriage Nr. 12 of churchbook register Grodziczno Kreis Loebau

marriage in Wessolowo on 29.10.1866
Valentin Chachulski, bachelor in Kielpin, 25 years old, catholic
Marianna Wessolowska, virgin, 20 years old, catholic

Regards
Reiner

[DavidSkudlarek]

Regarding the "other" Josef Chachulski, who passed in Erie county, NY in 1958.
The reason I don't have a date of death for Josef Chachulski is that he sort of disappeared by 1906. After he and Julianne emigrated to the USA in September, 1903 with their three children born in Horst, they settled in Grand Rapids, Michigan. They had one more child together, my grandfather, Bernard Anthony "Ben" Chachulski, born in Grand Rapids, Michigan 1 June 1905. After that they seemed to have split in about 1906. Julianne married another man, Wasil Dyczko, in Sept, 1907 in Grand Rapids. Julianne and Wasil and her four children relocated to Gary, Indiana in 1908. Ultimately they relocated to South Bend, Indiana, my hometown, and they had four more children.

Records for this Josef Chachulski dried up after Julianne and he split up. I investigated the "other" Joseph Chachulski but his home was in the Buffalo, New York area. He started a family and had children starting in 1903 in the USA. So I decided he could not be my great grandfather starting over in another place.

[DavidSkudlarek]

Carl, Are you now discounting the accuracy of Josef's birth year being 1871?

--David

[Gastonian]

Hi David:

Yes, your Joseph cannot have been born 1871, as we have the baptismal register for 1871 featuring his parents in the prior year, and there is no baptism in 1871 for this Joseph. In general, it appears to me that the marriage certificate, which reports 1873 as his birth year, is much more accurate than the local registration card. Unfortunately the baptismal register for 1873 has not been preserved.

--Carl-Henry

[DavidSkudlarek]

Hi Carl, I really appreciate you staying connected to this topic about my great grandparents.

You write that Josef's parents were featured in the baptismal register in "the previous year." 1870? Does that mean there was an entry with Josef's parents in the baptismal register for one of Josef's siblings?

==David

[Gastonian]

Hi David:

Yes, see post #7 above, in which I provide a link to the baptism of Johann Chachulski, born 26 November 1870 in Kielpin as son of Valentin Chachulski and Marianna Wesołowska.

Regards

--Carl-Henry

[ReReBe]

Hello everyone,

this brother was born to Josef: Mroczno. Taufen Scan 64/87 Nr. 121

Johann, born on 26.11.1870 to
Valentin Chachulski, resident in Kielpin, catholik
and Marianna nee Wesolowska

o.k. Carl-Henry had already posted this.
Sorry

Regards
Reiner