[gelöst] Latin Baptism in 1708

[ellend1]

Quelle bzw. Art des Textes: Baptism
Jahr, aus dem der Text stammt: 1708
Ort/Gegend der Text-Herkunft: Chalonvillars, Haute-Saone, France
Namen um die es sich handeln sollte: Petrus Besancon

Good morning from the US. I am seeking help with the attached record from Chalonvillars, France. I believe it is the baptism of my direct ancestor, Petrus Besancon in 1708. I see the parents names as: Guillaume Besancon and Eve Gravier. I think the baptism was on 01 APRIL 1708. I see the godparents are Petrus Jardon and Joanna Claudia Plettis (??). Can someone please help with the date at the end of the entry (10 MAY 17??) and what it signifies? I read it as 172? but that does not make sense in an entry from 1708. I am seeking the opinion of others. I am attaching a link (page 21/112, bottom left side) and a picture. Many thanks.

https://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtaa83f26191744fd65/daogrp/0#id:371698793?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00&center=697.921,-1420.584&zoom=11&rotation=0.000

Regards,

Ellen

[Gastonian]

Hi Ellen:


Can't help much with the reading, but you will note that the handwriting is very different from the other entries on the page. It appears to me that this entry was added in the late 1720s when (perhaps at his marriage) they discovered that they had skipped his baptism in the register (there is another late entry at the bottom of the right-hand page from the early 1730s). As for the date of the baptism, I think there is a ". . ." before April - that is, even back when they added this entry they weren't sure which day in April it had been.


--Carl-Henry

[Wallone]

Hi everybody,

I would be tempted to read as follows:

"ut ipsa nec matrina die 10 maii 1729 mihi retulit"

meaning " as the aforesaid godmother told me on the 10th of May 1729".

However i have a problem with "nec" (not).

Could it be the contrary, i.e. that she said she wasn't the godmother?

I anticipate other good replies from our colleagues and friends.

[Huber Benedikt]

Dann pack ich auch mein verstaubtes Schulenglisch aus....

Petrus son of William (Guillelmo) B, and Eva G. a married couple
from Ch, born and baptized on day ??15th?? of april in the year 1708
whose godparents are Petrus J and Joanne (Sevain..?)
Claudia P as godmother (matrina)
On the 10th of may in the year 1729 ....unreadable ..

Armand hat recht....mihi retulit.... das passt
Vorschlag: C.P ut ipsa nec matrina.....mihi retulit
Claudia P, die selbst aber nicht Patin war hat mir das am 10. Mai 1729 erzählt.
C.P who herself has not been godmother told me that on....

[ellend1]

Thank you very much for the input on this topic. I appreciate the assistance. Perhaps Petrus Besancon was ready for marriage in 1729 and this entry was added at that time.

Kind regards,

Ellen

[M_Nagel]

I woud read and interprete that as follows:

ut ipsa met matrina die 10 maii 1729 mihi retulit
as the godmother herself told me on May 10th, 1729.

[ellend1]

Thank you Michael - I appreciate your reply.

Kind regards,

Ellen

[Wallone]

Excellent Michael: I had never seen "met" before (apparently a kind of pleonasm with "ipsa").

Although it should normally be associated with "egomet" or "nosmet". ...

[M_Nagel]

Danke, Armand.
Du hast recht hinsichtlich des Pleonasmus.
Es kam wahrscheinlich nicht oft vor, ist aber im Internet anzutreffen und zwar, in den Formen ipsusmet/ipsemet (m), ipsamet (f) und ipsummet/ipsudmet (n).

[Wallone]

Vielen Dank für die Erklärung Michael.

[Huber Benedikt]

Auch für mich neu....
Laut Navigium kann das verstärkende -met auch an alle Personalpronomina angehängt werden egomet tumet , nosmet usw.
Ist mir in der Praxis noch nie untergekommen.