[gelöst] Kis-Szeben (Zeben), trauung, 1784

[JPmiaou]

Quelle bzw. Art des Textes: Kirchenbuch
Jahr, aus dem der Text stammt: 1784
Ort/Gegend der Text-Herkunft: Kis-Szeben, Sáros, Ungarn
Namen um die es sich handeln sollte: Styavniczky, Hegedűs

I apologize for writing in English, but my German is much too rusty -- I can read it, but not write it.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11604-126564-22?cc=1554443&wc=9PQZ-3TP:107654101,107702901,112939201,1161474202

The entry is the bottom half of the left-hand page. I can read the names, but pretty much nothing else:

Anno 1784
?? 16 Novemb. ... Andreas Scaivnitzky ...... Matthias Scaivnitzky ..... Juditha Königin ..... Anna Hegeduschin ... Samuel Hegedusch ... Susanna Geithnerin ....
NB. ..... 20 Sept. 1784 ...... Stola(?) ..... Decret ?? 15 Nov. 1784 .... Articular-?? .....

I would like a full transcription, so that I know what words to look up in the dictionary, and so that I can maybe learn to read this style of handwriting, somehow.
(I wouldn't object to a translation, into either English or Hungarian, but I know that's beyond the scope of this forum.)
Thank you!

[Xtine]

Hello JPmiaou,

welcome to our forum.

I read:

Anno 1784
d. 16 Novemb. H. Andreas Scawnitzky Bürger u. Binder-
Meister allhier ein Jüngling H. Matthias Scawnitzky
Bürger u- Binder Meister allhier mit seiner Gotts.(eelig) Frauen
Juditha Königin ehelich erzeugter Sohn - mit Jungfer
Anna Hegeduschin H. Samuel Hegedusch Bürgers u.
Färbers in der k. k. F. Stadt Eperes mit seiner Frauen
Susanna Peithnerin ehelich erzeugte jüngerer Tochter.

NB. das ist das erste Ehepaar, welches nach Allerhöchster Kays. Königl.
Verordnung ddto 20 Sept. 1784 in hiesiger katholischer
Pfarrkirche drymal aufgebothen wurde, nach erhaltener Stola
von unser Evangelischen Pfarrhern, aber auch das letzte, denn
nach einem darauf folgenden Decret ddto. 15 Nov. 1784
sind unsere Articular-Kirchen von dieser Last be-
freyt worden.



Not Hungarian, but English

Year 1784
Nov. 16 Mr. Andreas Scawnitzky, citizen and (reaper??-) binder
master here (in this town) a single man (youth), a legitimate son of Mr. Matthias Scawnitzky
citizen and (reaper-) binder master here and his deceased wife
Juditha König - with (single) mistress
Anna Hegedusch, legitimate daughter of Mr. Samuel Hegedusch, citizen and
dyer in the imperial and royal F.(??) town Eperes (today Prešov) and his wife
Susanna Peithner.

N.B. This couple is the first, who was married and proclamated in this catholic church after imperial and royal order of Sept. 20. 1784, after given Stole from the protestant parish, and also the last, because after following decree from Nov. 15 1784 the Articular-church was liberated from this load (burden?).

[JPmiaou]

Danke schön!!

My father's uncle apparently looked at this record (in the original) in 1932; he translated the groom's and his father's occupations as bodnármester (master cooper: barrel-maker), and he also read the bride's mother's name as Geithner. I can see what you mean with Peithner, because the first letter looks like a less-ornate version of the first letter of "Paria" at the top of the next page, but compare also at the bottom of that page, at the end of the next-to-last line: there's a name that looks to me like Paul Georg Metzner, and the first letter in Susanna's surname looks a lot more like the G of Georg than the P of Paul.

For the bride's father's town: there were three cities in the county of Sáros: Kis-Szeben (now Sabinov), Bártfa (now Bardejov), and Eperjes (now Prešov). That last could also be written Eperies (or Fragopolis, in Latin), but I haven't seen it before without the i/j. I can find the word on the page, but it continues to look like a scribble; I can't even parse it into individual letters. Is there an i/j in there, or is it written without?

I'm going to have to read up on the Edict of Toleration to make sense of the note. I guess the first version of the law, in September, decreed that Lutherans could marry in their own churches, but had to post the banns (that is, announce the marriage ahead of time) three times in the Catholic church (with appropriate payment, called "Stola"), but this requirement was lifted in November (the day before this wedding, but obviously they didn't get the news in time)?

Also for the bride: does "jüngerer Tochter" mean that they had two daughters, and she's the younger one, or is she simply being described as "young"?

Thank you again, and thanks and apologies for the use of English.

Julia
/\ /\
>*.*<

[Xtine]

Hello Julia,

My father's uncle apparently looked at this record (in the original) in 1932; he translated the groom's and his father's occupations as bodnármester (master cooper: barrel-maker),

yes, thats right, I found it (Binder) = cooper.

and he also read the bride's mother's name as Geithner.

Thats also right, I found annother Georg on the next Page (144) on the top, it's the same G. So Geithner is correct.

That last could also be written Eperies (or Fragopolis, in Latin), but I haven't seen it before without the i/j. I can find the word on the page, but it continues to look like a scribble; I can't even parse it into individual letters. Is there an i/j in there, or is it written without?

No, there is no i/j . But if I extend it to maximum, I think it is written Epperes. But the r is not very clear, perhaps it should be an "ri". Or he wrote what he heard, or he forgot the i.

Also for the bride: does "jüngerer Tochter" mean that they had two daughters, and she's the younger one, or is she simply being described as "young"?

Sorry, I forgot this part to translate. "jüngerer Tochter" means, that she has at least one older sister. But it could also be that they had more older daughters.