[gelöst] Help to comparison between two registers - Gablonz 1761 and 1783

[Marcio Scheibler]

Quelle bzw. Art des Textes:
Jahr, aus dem der Text stammt:
Ort/Gegend der Text-Herkunft:

Hello!!!

This is the marriage register of Joseph Scheibler and Maria Anna Jakl, in 1783: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3....WSS:n108938641

And this the christening register of Johannes Joseph Scheibler, in 1761: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3....7BT:1188999188

The name of father of Joseph is the same, Franz Scheibler, but i don't have sure if it is the same person.

Can someone help me to confirm this relation? : Ajuda:

Thanks

[Xtine]

Hello,


marriage register of Joseph Scheibler and Maria Anna Jakl, in 1783:

Joseph(us) filius (son of) Joseph(i) Scheibler operarii (daylaboer) diumi(??) et(with) Maria Elisabetha filia post + (left daughter of) Joannem Klinger fabrum lignarium (carpenter?) ex(from) Grunvald(Grunwald)

Josephus Hibner vitricida ex Kukan
Josephus Posche(?) rusticus ex Gablonz
Apolonia uxor post + Josephum Heydrich capiscidam ex Gabl.

christening register of Johannes Joseph Scheibler, in 1761:

Gablontz Anno 1761 die 2 Mense Majoin Ecclesia Parochial. Gablonecensi
S. Anna a me Bresbytero Ecclesiastico Francisco Feix(?) dapellano
Gablonecensi baptizatus fuit Joannes Josephus filiolus legitimus
Francisci Schoübler, et ejus uxoris Anna Mariae Parentum
subvitorum Domini Parro S. Kallensis, natus eadem die 2. Maji
in pago Gablontz. Ejus levans fuit Antonius filius post de-
functum Christophorum Zellinhauer ex Gablontz. Test. Christian
Hilger ex Gablontz Maria Anna filia Caspari Fischer ex
Gablontz. Maria Elisabetha uxor Josephi Czosche ex Gablontz
Salomena vidua post defunctum Christianum Herold ex Gablontz

Short translation
Child: Johannes Joseph Schoübler(=?Scheibler?) *2. May
Father: Franz Schoübler
Mother: Anna Maria (no birth Name!)


Two different fathers!!!!

[Marcio Scheibler]

No, no, no!!!!

The marriage register is the second - Joseph Scheibler and Maria Anna Jakl, not the last - Joseph Scheibler and Maria Elisabetha Klinger

You saw the wrong register

[Gaby]

Hello Marcio,

24. November 1783
Josephus filius post + Franciscum Scheibler rusticum ex Gablonz et Anna Maria filia Wenceslai Jakl vitricidae ex Grunvald.
Gablonz Nr. 139

Josef, Sohn of the late Franz Scheibler, farmer from Gablonz and Anna Maria, daughter of Wenzel Jakl, glassmaker from Grünwald (Mšeno nad Nisou)

Anno 1761 die 2 Mense Majo in Ecclesia Parochiali Gablonecensi
S. Annae á me Presbytero Ecclesiastico Francisco Feix Capellano
Gablonecensi baptizatus fuit Joannes Josephus filiolus legitimus
Francisci Scheübler (Scheibler) et ejus uxoris Annae Mariae Parentum
subditorum Dominij Parvo-Skallensis, natus eodem die 2. Maji
in pago Gablontz. Ejus Levans fuit Antonius filius post de-
functum Christophorum Jellinghauer ex Gablontz. Test. Christianj
Hilger ex Gablontz. maria Anna filia Caspari Fischer ex
Gablontz. Maria Elisabetha uxor Josephi Czosche ex Gablontz
Salomena vidua post defunctum Christianum Herold ex Gablontz.

At the 2nd day of the month of the year 1761 in the parish church from Gablonz
St. Anne, I, Francis Feix, priest chaplain from
Gablonz baptized John Joseph little legitimate son of
Francis Scheübler (Scheibler) and his wife Anna Maria Parents
underling of the dominion Parvo-Skallensis (Kleinskal - Malá Skála), born on the same day, 2. May,
in the village Gablonz. His godfather was Anthony son of the late
Christopher Jellinghauer from Gablontz. witnesses are Christian
Hilger from Gablonz, Mary Anne, daughter of Caspar Fischer from
Gablonz. Mary Elizabeth, wife of Joseph Czosche from Gablontz
Salomena widow of the late Christian Herold from Gablonz .

I think that this is the same Franz Scheibler and son.

[Michael1960]

Dear Marcio,

genealogical research is - unfortunately - quite complicated! Especially when your going back to the 18th century and before.

At first you have to read the located entries in a church register thoroughly:

The first quoted entry sais, that a guy named Josephus, son of "Franez?-eum or -cum" Scheibler (probably) married a girl named Anna Maria. There is not written how old Josephus and Anna Maria in celebration of their wedding had been.

In the second quoted entry I only can reed that in 1761 a baby was christened who had got the name "Joannes Josephus" and who was the legitimate son of a father named "Francisci Scheübler" or "Francisci Scheubler".

Therefore - at first - you have two different names: "Scheibler" and "Scheübler" or "Scheubler". Of course it is possible that we have only two different notations of one and the same name - but we don´t know! And without any specification of the husbands age in the wedding entry we can only try to guess - but there isn´t any evidence for the identity of the two "Josephus".

On the contrary Christines mistake is a proof for the fact that you have no evidence at all: Only on the shown page with wedding entries we can find two different "Josephus Scheibler" who had got two different fathers! We have found two totally different persons!

There might be an identity between the two distinguished persons - this one in the wedding entry and that one in the christining entry. But only with these two different entries you cannot be sure!

So I´m afraid that you have to accumulate quite a lot of more hints!

Greetings
Michael

[Marcio Scheibler]

I know that the genealogical research is complicated, mainly with you live in Brazil and find ascendents in Europe, like me

Joseph Scheibler and Maria Anna Jakl I have sure that they are my ascendents, because their names appear in the christening registers of their sons and grandsons. And the number of house is equal too.

I put the wedding register of them and the christening register of Joseph Scheibler to try discover if is the same person, but sadly, in the 18th century, the number of house don't appear. That would be good if appear.

As the name of father of Joseph are the same (or similar), Franz or Franciscus (latim), could be the same person.

Thanks for the explanation!!!

Dear Marcio,

genealogical research is - unfortunately - quite complicated! Especially when your going back to the 18th century and before.

At first you have to read the located entries in a church register thoroughly:

The first quoted entry sais, that a guy named Josephus, son of "Franez?-eum or -cum" Scheibler (probably) married a girl named Anna Maria. There is not written how old Josephus and Anna Maria in celebration of their wedding had been.

In the second quoted entry I only can reed that in 1761 a baby was christened who had got the name "Joannes Josephus" and who was the legitimate son of a father named "Francisci Scheübler" or "Francisci Scheubler".

Therefore - at first - you have two different names: "Scheibler" and "Scheübler" or "Scheubler". Of course it is possible that we have only two different notations of one and the same name - but we don´t know! And without any specification of the husbands age in the wedding entry we can only try to guess - but there isn´t any evidence for the identity of the two "Josephus".

On the contrary Christines mistake is a proof for the fact that you have no evidence at all: Only on the shown page with wedding entries we can find two different "Josephus Scheibler" who had got two different fathers! We have found two totally different persons!

There might be an identity between the two distinguished persons - this one in the wedding entry and that one in the christining entry. But only with these two different entries you cannot be sure!

So I´m afraid that you have to accumulate quite a lot of more hints!

Greetings
Michael

[Xtine]

No, no, no!!!!

The marriage register is the second - Joseph Scheibler and Maria Anna Jakl, not the last - Joseph Scheibler and Maria Elisabetha Klinger

You saw the wrong register

Oh sorry, I didn't have my glasses on

[Marcio Scheibler]

No problem, Christine!!! You are very helpful

Oh sorry, I didn't have my glasses on