[ungelöst] Are these the same?

[itsmemismelis]

Quelle bzw. Art des Textes:
Jahr, aus dem der Text stammt:
Ort/Gegend der Text-Herkunft:

Both of these entries are from 1753. From what I can tell it looks like the same person. Does anyone else this so?
Melissa

Beide Einträge sind von 1753. Von dem, was ich kann sagen, es sieht aus wie die gleiche Person . Hat jemand das so?
Melissa

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xdtngcsdthoo1cg/Mathias%20Zaun%201753.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nb50pwerwon6upn/Mathias%202%201753.jpg?dl=0

[Kaiser Franz Joseph]

The birthday of the first person is on the 2nd January and the birthday of the other one is on another day. And that's why it can't be the same person.

[Friederike]

Nein, das ist nicht dieselbe Person, sondern das sind zwei unterschiedlicheTaufeinträge,
wie die Geburtsdaten beweisen.
Wahrscheinlich ist der erstgeborene Matthias bald verstorben, und so nannten die Eltern
den nächsten Sohn wieder Matthias.
Also einfach mal nach einem Sterbeeintrag zu dem früher geborenen Matthias suchen.

[itsmemismelis]

So I understand that the dates are different, but are the names identical for the 2 (looks like it to me)? These are from the same year so they can't be from the same set of parents.
Melissa

[Julio]

Hallo Melissa,
if the first child was born in January, the second child may be born only in November or December of the same year, when it is actually involve the same year.

What is the birthday of the second child?
Julio

[itsmemismelis]

The second one is in February :/
Melissa

[Rieke]

Hello Melissa,

Are you sure it is really the same year?


Liebe Gruesse
Rieke

[itsmemismelis]

Here is the 2 full pages of the documents

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tg83v8ind6f2s2q/Mathias%20whole%20page%201%201753.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q0gp0hhl4sm72j1/Mathias%20whole%20page%202%201753.jpg?dl=0

Melissa

[Rieke]

Hello Melissa,

Now I am truly mystified
It really looks like there are two baptisms for the same child, albeit written by two different people. The godfather is also the same in both entries.
The 2nd baptism appears squeezed in retrospectively between the other baptism entry on the same day and the burial on the 23rd.

Perhaps the parents Jost Heinrich and Gertrudt [Gerdrut] Zaun, for whatever reason, presented their son for baptism a second time????

Here the transcripts:

On Folio Nr. 712
1) Rothenditmold 7. Januar 1753
getauft: Mätthias, der Vatter ist
Jost Heinrich Zaun, die Mutter Anna
Gertrudt, Gevatter ist Matthias Räu-
ther da..... Gastwirth, Geburtstag
der 7. Januar.

On Folio Nr. 716
2) 18. Februar 1753
getauft Mathias, Vatter Jost Heinrich Zaun, Mutter
Anna Gerdrut, patte Mathias Reuter, wirth, daselbst,
geburtstag 13. [oder 15.?]

BTW, The first name Jost is not a short-form for another name but one in its own right. It occurs in the region around Kassel to this day. Just google it.

Liebe Gruesse
Rieke

[itsmemismelis]

Rieke,
Thank you for taking the time to look this over. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one seeing the same thing. I mean my German is not the best but I can make out the important stuff and everything looked identical...Very Interesting!!! Thanks again!
Melissa

[Johannes v.W.]

Hello

A very strange case . Not only for the parents but especially for the godfather Matthias Räuther/Reuter, an inn owner, they all seem to be the same persons.

Besides an error for whatever reason in the church register (is it definitively the same parish?), an explanation might be the very rare case of twins born at different times, the first then probably a premature birth (born and christened the same day, often a sign for a weak baby), who did not survive.

Viele Grüße
Johannes

[Xtine]

Hello Melissa,

did this child survive?

There are all sort of entries on the same page, birth, marriage and death.
Perhaps the priest made instead of death a false 2. birth registration

Sometimes they had a bit too much sacramental wine

[itsmemismelis]

So I was looking over this again and from what I can tell it is the same parish. I did not find a death record between the 2 birth records. I'm attaching the links below again so you can take a look. I am surprised that if it was a twin that it was not mentioned. Look forward to hearing anyone else's thoughts and opinion on this stiuation.

Melissa

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q0gp0hhl4sm72j1/Mathias%20whole%20page%202%201753.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tg83v8ind6f2s2q/Mathias%20whole%20page%201%201753.jpg?dl=0

[Xtine]

Hello Melissa,

I think the second birth entry should be (maybe) the death entry.

Did you check, if there is annother birth for a Mathias Zaun in the next years?

[Anna Sara Weingart]

....The first name Jost ...

Hello,
see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judoc

best regards