[gelöst] Help to translation - Gablonz, 1822

[Marcio Scheibler]

Quelle bzw. Art des Textes:
Jahr, aus dem der Text stammt:
Ort/Gegend der Text-Herkunft:

Good morning!!!

I need help to translate the third register in the left side in the link below:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-20230-37107-1?cc=1804263&wc=M9QY-71W:n731890821

The name of children is Josef Richter, born in Juni 4th, 1822.

I believe that the name of parents are Anton and Maria Anna. The other things I did not understand.

Thank you

[Ditthardt]

Hello Marcio.

1st column (day):
4.5.

2nd column (house number):
old 391 new 300

3rd c. (name)
Joseph

Father:
Peter Richter Tuchmacher (clothier)

Mother:
Anna Tochter des Stephan [...]sich Taglöhner in Jablonz Nr. 306 und der [...] Jackel aus Jablonz Nr. 295 alt 242. (Anna daughter of Stephan [...]sich day labourer in J. and [...] Jackel from Jablonz Nr. 295 old 242.)

so much for this...;-)

[Asphaltblume]

I can't read it all, neither, but I'm sure the father's name is Peter, not Anton. The profession is Tuchmacher, cloth-maker. The date of birth looks more like May 4th to me.
Mother: A.? Maria, Tochter des Stephan Schreiner? ??? Taglöhner in Gablonz No. 30B und der M. Anna Prokel aus Gablonz No. 291 ult 272 ???
(A.? Maria, daughter of Stephan Schreiner? ??? dayworker in Gablonz No. 30B and of M. Anna Prokel from Gablonz No. 291 ult 272 ???)

I can't read the godparents' names.

[arbophilus]

Hi Marcio,

welcome to the forum!

I do a first try of the transcription here.
For the red parts, i am unsure, especially with the names of the bride's parents and the godparents.
But I am sure, some of the experts here will help furthermore

Best regards!

Mark

----------------------------------------

Juny 822
[June 1822]

4./5.
[birth June 4. / baptism June 5.]

alt 391
neu 306
[number of the house (residence): old 391 - new 306]

Joseph
[name of the child]

katholisch, männllich, ehelich
[catholic, male, born in wedlock]

Peter Richter, Tuchmacher
[father: Peter Richter, clothier]

Fr. Anna Toch-
ter des Ste-
phan Schren(?)-
sich Taglöhner
in Gablonz
No. 306 und
der Fr. Anna(?)
Jeokal(?) aus
Gablonz No.
291 alt 242
[mother: Mrs. Anna, daughter of the daytaler Stephan Schrensich (surname unsure) from Gablonz, house No. 306 and Mrs. Anna Jeokal (both names unsure) from Gablonz house No. 291 old 242]

Antonin Leobaum
Müller in Neudorf
Franz Henryk Jeokal
_____ in Gablonz
[godparents: Antonin Leobaum (surname unsure), miller of Neudorf,
Franz Henryk Jeokal (second name and surname unsure), ____ (profession) of Gablonz]

----------------------------------------

Liebe Lesehilfe-Expertinnen und -Experten,

vielleicht könnt Ihr mich in den roten Teilen korrigieren, ergänzen oder ggf. bestätigen?

Danke und Gruß,
Mark

P.S.: Asphaltblume war nen Tick schneller :-)
.

[Marcio Scheibler]

Hello, people!!!

Firstly, thanks for the help!!!

One son of Joseph born in Brazil and in his birth register show the surname of grandmother like Maria Anna Wabersich. Do you get to see this surname now I told?

In the register that I asked to help, the name Maria is contracted. Appear "M. Anna".

How the name of father is Peter, Joseph really is my ancestor, because the birth date is the same that show in his grave in Brazil: June 4th, 1822

Thank you one more time!!!

Hi Marcio,

welcome to the forum!

I do a first try of the transcription here.
For the red parts, i am unsure, especially with the names of the bride's parents and the godparents.
But I am sure, some of the experts here will help furthermore

Best regards!

Mark

----------------------------------------

Juny 822
[June 1822]

4./5.
[birth June 4. / baptism June 5.]

alt 391
neu 306
[number of the house (residence): old 391 - new 306]

Joseph
[name of the child]

katholisch, männllich, ehelich
[catholic, male, born in wedlock]

Peter Richter, Tuchmacher
[father: Peter Richter, clothier]

Fr. Anna Toch-
ter des Ste-
phan Schren(?)-
sich Taglöhner
in Gablonz
No. 306 und
der Fr. Olivia(?)
Jeokal(?) aus
Gablonz No.
291 alt 242
[mother: Mrs. Anna, daughter of the daytaler Stephan Schrensich (surname unsure) from Gablonz, house No. 306 and Mrs. Olivia Jeokal (both names unsure) from Gablonz house No. 291 old 242]

Antonin Leobaum
Müller in Neudorf
Franz Henryk Jeokal
_____ in Gablonz

[godparents: Antonin Leobaum (surname unsure), miller of Neudorf,
Franz Henryk Jeokal (second name and surname unsure), ____ (profession) of Gablonz]

----------------------------------------

Liebe Lesehilfe-Expertinnen und -Experten,

vielleicht könnt Ihr mich in den roten Teilen korrigieren, ergänzen oder ggf. bestätigen?

Danke und Gruß,
Mark

P.S.: Asphaltblume war nen Tick schneller :-)
.

[Marcio Scheibler]

I don't know to use correctly this website yet

I responded with citation to member Arbophilus, but I am thanks for all people that responded this topic: Ditthard e Asphaltblume, too

[Ditthardt]

With your Information about the mothers maiden name I now would read Anna Wanersich. Certainly without "b". In addition, compared to her name I guess that the first name of her grandmother also reads Anna Jackel

[Marcio Scheibler]

Hello!!!

Someone can tell me why the name of father's parents dont appear in registers?

Only the mother's parents appear. I don't know since what year this names started to appear, but I think is strange, because the research become difficult.


Thanks for the help

[franz ferdinand]

Dear Marcio!

I want to tell you that your surname in combination with the town of Gablonz rang a bell: In my Upper Austrian hometown we have a strong community of former Sudete-Germans, all coming from Gablonz after their violent expelling after 1945. One of those still existing families is called Scheibler and I personally know some members of them. I probably could create a contact, if you´re interested in.

Kind regards,
Martin

[franz ferdinand]

Hello!!!
Someone can tell me why the name of father's parents dont appear in registers?

That´s absolutely usual for Austrian Church records of that time and doesn´t have a special meaning.

Joseph Richter´s grandmother btw is for sure called M(aria) Anna Jaekel - the surname Jäkel still exists within the former Gablonz-community in my hometown mentioned above. This gives a fine match.

Joseph´s godfather isn´t called "Franz Henryk Jeokal", instead it means "Franz Jaekel, Handelsmann (=tradesman) in Gablonz" from my point of view.

LG Martin

[Xtine]

Hello,

I correct a little bit.


M.(aria) Anna Toch-
ter des Ste-
phan Wawr-
sich Taglöhner
in Gablonz
No. 306 und
der M.(aria) Anna
Jackel (or Jaokel) aus
Gablonz No.
291 alt 242

[mother: Maria Anna, daughter of the day laboer Stephan Wawrsich from Gablonz, house No. 306 and Maria Anna Jackel (it looks like an o, but I think it must be a c) from Gablonz house No. 291 old 242]

If you pronounce Wawrsich or Wabersich it's verry similar. It's not unusual that they wrote the names in different ways because they wrote what they understood.

Also Jäkel or Jackel is verry similar.


Edit:

Andreas Leckmann (it's the same, it looks like an o but must be a c)
Müller in Neudorf
Franz Jackel (here it's clearly written with c!)
Handelsmann in Gablonz

[PeterS]

Hello!!!

Someone can tell me why the name of father's parents dont appear in registers?

Only the mother's parents appear. I don't know since what year this names started to appear, but I think is strange, because the research become difficult.


Thanks for the help

The parents of Peter Richter - Franz Richter from Neurode/Nowa Ruda (now Poland) and Theresia Wild - appear in entries of siblings of Joseph some years later:
...
Franz Xaver * 10. Aug 1825
Franz *31 Oct 1826
...

Always take a look at the whole family!

Greetings, Peter

Edit:
Marriage of Petrus Richter and Maria Anna Wabersich in Gablonz on 14. Sept 1816

[Xtine]

I think you need help with the new entries

Franz Xaver * 10. Aug 1825

Father:
Peter Richter, Tuchmacher und Sohn des Franz Richter Tuchmachermeisters in Neurode No. unb. in Preußisch Schlesien und der Theresia Wildin aus Neurode No. unb
Peter Richter, clothier, son of Franz Richter, clothier master from Neurode, Number not known, prussia Silesia and Theresia Wild from Neurode Nr. not known.

Mother:
M. Anna Tochter des Stephan Wabersich Perlnbläsers in Gablonz No 30 neu 301 alt, und der M. Anna Jackel aus Gablonz No 191 alt 243 neu
Same as above only the house numbers are different


Franz *31 Oct 1826

Same as before, only Franz Richter, father of Peter was already deceased (+!) and Stephan Wabersich was called a Gärtler = owner of a garden(with little house? - I think he didn't work no longer)

[Marcio Scheibler]

Hello, Martin!!!

I have interest in a contact.

My Scheibler ancestors came from early Gablonz to Brazil in 1869. I found the birth register of my great-great grandfather and his father, as well as the marriage register of his parents, in the website Family Search.

Can you give a e-mail address to contact with the group?

Thank you

Dear Marcio!

I want to tell you that your surname in combination with the town of Gablonz rang a bell: In my Upper Austrian hometown we have a strong community of former Sudete-Germans, all coming from Gablonz after their violent expelling after 1945. One of those still existing families is called Scheibler and I personally know some members of them. I probably could create a contact, if you´re interested in.

Kind regards,
Martin

[Marcio Scheibler]

Hello, Peter!

I did not know the name of brothers of Joseph, but I thank you so much for the links that you showed here

The parents of Peter Richter - Franz Richter from Neurode/Nowa Ruda (now Poland) and Theresia Wild - appear in entries of siblings of Joseph some years later:
...
Franz Xaver * 10. Aug 1825
Franz *31 Oct 1826
...

Always take a look at the whole family!

Greetings, Peter

Edit:
Marriage of Petrus Richter and Maria Anna Wabersich in Gablonz on 14. Sept 1816