Searching for birthplace of three children in 1900-1903

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  • DavidSkudlarek
    Benutzer
    • 25.03.2025
    • 25

    Searching for birthplace of three children in 1900-1903

    First post to this forum. Have been researching my family for two years in American records, working backwards, and have reached Germany.

    My great grandparents emigrated to the USA from Germany? arriving NYC on 14 Sept 1903. Josef Cherhnski or Chachulski and Julianne Krukowska and their three children: Mary or Maria, Julia, and Joseph Jr. Mary born 2 Feb 1900; Julia born 2 June 1901; and Joseph Jr. born 28 April 1903. My starting point is birth location of the three children.

    I have obtained a copy of the US Social Security SS-5 application Mary completed when she was 72 years old in April, 1972. On the application she wrote that her birthplace was "Horst, at present, GelsenKirchen, Germany." Joseph Jr, completed the US Naturalization process in Sept 1937. His Petition for Naturalization states that his birthplace was Horst, Germany. I have nothing specific on Julia.

    Other people tell me there are about 10 locations named Horst in Germany, but I am relying heavily on what Mary wrote on her application for US Social Security in 1972. Publicly available information says that a town of Horst has become part of GelsenKirchen currently.

    I attach a copy of the Ship Manifest for the families' emigration passage to the US arriving in NYC 14 Sept 1903 aboard the vessel Vaderland departing Antwerp. The first five lines are for this family. The surname is indexed as Cherhnski, but the children used Chachulski in their adult lives in the US. Note that they said their destination was to meet cousin Franz at 169 McReynolds St, Grand Rapids, Michigan. In fact Frank Chachulski lived at that address in 1903. My reading of the manifest is unclear on their previous residence and what Josef's occupation was. Does it say Miner?

    Julianne remarried in 1906 and the family and new husband relocated to South Bend, Indiana in approx. 1911. Records for Josef dried up after the split from his wife and family.

    I greatly appreciate any help in finding any records on this family.

    David Skudlarek


  • hschmauck
    Erfahrener Benutzer
    • 15.06.2023
    • 1185

    #2
    Hi David,

    with the index on MyHeritage I found this certifiacte of marriage:

    Joseph Chachulski (profession: miner)
    * 18.10.1873 Kielpin (I think in "Löbau county" in West Prussia, today called Kiełpin/Człuchów/Poland)
    Father: Valentin Chachulski
    Mother: Marianna Weslowska (?)
    oo 08.05.1899 at registry of (Gelsenkirchen-) Horst with
    Julie Krukowski
    * 24.08.1875 Wiggodda (I think in "Schwetz county" in West Prussia, today called Wygoda, cz. Tlenia/Poland near to Świecie/Schwetz)
    Father: Friedrich Krukowski
    Mother: Brigitta Chepanski (?)



    Both spouses lived in Gelsenkirchen-Horst, so this should be the birth place at least of their daughter Mary.

    And from data base MyHeritage:
    Joseph Chachulski
    * ca. 1872
    + 04.01.1958 Erie, New York

    Both places of birth I would locate in West Prussia, Marienwerder district:

    Kiełpin/Człuchów:


    Wygoda, cz. Tlenia/Schwetz:


    For further/better information about the Prussian places an next generations you may ask here:


    The birth certificates from Maria, Julia and Josef Chachulski should be available at the archive of Gelsenkirchen.
    You can order them with name and dates of Birth here: familienforschung@gelsenkirchen.de
    They will charge a fee of EUR 11 per copy:
    Die Stadt Gelsenkirchen informiert über das Dienstleistungsabgebot sowie über Wirtschaft, Bildung, Tourismus, Kultur und das Leben in Gelsenkirchen.


    Greetings
    Heiko
    Zuletzt geändert von hschmauck; 25.03.2025, 22:53.

    Kommentar

    • DavidSkudlarek
      Benutzer
      • 25.03.2025
      • 25

      #3
      Heiko, First I want to thank you for locating all that information. I mostly use Ancestry.Com because I am still trying to develop my genealogy skills and I have not fully utilized what Ancestry.Com has to offer. So I don't use other for pay genealogy websites. Occasionally I use FamilySearch.

      I was hoping the family was living in GelsenKirchen-Horst and so I had contacted the GelsenKirchen Institute of Urban History via email one week ago and have requested them to research the birth records of the Chachulski children. However, they replied that there are many family research requests so it might take some time to respond to my request.

      To confirm what you wrote about the family:

      MyHeritage search found a marriage certificate for Joseph Chachulski and Julia Krukowski on 8 May 1899 in GelsenKirchen-Horst. Joseph was born to Valentin Chachulski and Marianna Weslowska on 18 October 1873 in Kiełpin,Człuchów, Poland. Julia Krukowski was born to Friedrich Krukowski and Brigitta Chepanski on 24 August 1875 in Wygoda, Tlenia, Poland.

      Thanks again. It looks like you answered a question that I have had for almost two years!

      David Skudlarek
      Oak Park, IL, USA

      Kommentar

      • hschmauck
        Erfahrener Benutzer
        • 15.06.2023
        • 1185

        #4
        Hi David,

        you are welcome.
        You got everything right but to confirm the origins of the families Chachulski and Krukowski I would suggest to ask the specialists for Prussia in the other sub forum. This is because there were/are several places in Prussia/Poland called Kielpin and Wygoda.
        You may post the links to the certificate of marriage and ask their opinion about the places of birth.

        Best
        Heiko
        Zuletzt geändert von hschmauck; 26.03.2025, 09:25.

        Kommentar

        • DavidSkudlarek
          Benutzer
          • 25.03.2025
          • 25

          #5
          Heiko,
          Can you send the MyHeritage marriage certificate link? I don't use MyHeritage.

          David

          Kommentar

          • Gastonian
            Moderator
            • 20.09.2021
            • 5014

            #6
            Hi David:

            MyHeritage has just an index, which is copied at the beginning of post #2 above. The actual marriage certificate is the one linked in post #2 above with the links that begin www.landesarchiv-nrw.de (the certificate is two pages long, therefore two separate links). If you cannot read the certificate, post it here with a request for aid in reading: https://forum.ahnenforschung.net/for...rsetzungshilfe. Be aware that, as you go further back in time with this family, the ability to read German and decipher the old script will become important (much of the information will not be available from ancestry.com, but will, in this case, have to be gathered from German or Polish online archives).

            Regards

            --Carl-Henry
            Wohnort USA

            Kommentar

            • Gastonian
              Moderator
              • 20.09.2021
              • 5014

              #7
              Hi David:

              And to give you some context: Gelsenkirchen is located in the so-called Ruhrgebiet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr), which at that time was a center of coal mining as well as the German steel industry. Around 1900 many people moved from rural areas in eastern Germany (including areas that are now part of Poland, such as West Prussia) to the Ruhrgebiet for the industrial job opportunities, just as in the U.S. many people moved from the rural South or the rural Midwest to the coal mines and steel works in Pittsburgh.

              West Prussia at that time contained a mixed population of German and Polish ancestry. Both Chachulski and Krukowski are names that are Polish rather than German in origin (the passenger list gives their "nationality" as Polish), and they also were (according to the marriage certificate) Catholic. Birth certificates issued by a civil registry office were introduced in this area only in late 1874; before then you have to rely on church books. Catholic church books for this area have tended to end up in Polish archives (and are generally not captured by Ancestry.com). There are some Polish websites that give access to or at least index these church books, but there is a steep learning curve for these websites.

              Regards

              --Carl-Henry
              Wohnort USA

              Kommentar

              • DavidSkudlarek
                Benutzer
                • 25.03.2025
                • 25

                #8
                Thank you Carl. Going through a big learning curve now that my research focus has moved to Europe. I have to rely on many helpful people who know all this much better than I do.

                David

                Kommentar

                • DavidSkudlarek
                  Benutzer
                  • 25.03.2025
                  • 25

                  #9
                  hschmauck, You found a marriage record for Josef Chachulski and Julianne Krukowski on MyHeritage that indicated they were residents of and married in Horst-GelsenKirchen in 1899. And you found the digital copy of the two page marriage certificate on landesarchiv-nrw.de.
                  Therefore, should landesarchiv-nrw.de have the birth records for the three children of Josef and Julianne born in 1900-1903?

                  David

                  Kommentar

                  • Datenschutz
                    Benutzer
                    • 25.11.2024
                    • 63

                    #10
                    Hi David,
                    Here is a website where several church records (and much more) from Gelsenkirchen are linked.


                    Datenschutz

                    Kommentar

                    • Datenschutz
                      Benutzer
                      • 25.11.2024
                      • 63

                      #11
                      Hi David,
                      Here is the link to the digitized civil status registers.


                      Datenschutz

                      Kommentar

                      • Gastonian
                        Moderator
                        • 20.09.2021
                        • 5014

                        #12
                        Hello Datenschutz:

                        But the birth registers, unlike the marriage registers, are not digitized - can only be viewed in the archive. And the Catholic church books for Horst are also not yet online for this period.

                        Regards

                        --Carl-Henry
                        Wohnort USA

                        Kommentar

                        • DavidSkudlarek
                          Benutzer
                          • 25.03.2025
                          • 25

                          #13
                          Carl, Thanks for continuing to look at this thread.
                          When you say the birth registers can only be viewed in the archive, does that mean they can only be seen physically in GelsenKirchen?
                          I have a request in to the GelsenKirchen Institute of Urban History asking them to research the three births of the Chachulski children. But they say to the volume of family research requests they receive, "it will take some time to get to my request."
                          Am I asking in the right place?

                          David

                          Kommentar

                          • Gastonian
                            Moderator
                            • 20.09.2021
                            • 5014

                            #14
                            Hello David:

                            Back then two sets of registers were kept - a main register ("Hauptregister") that stayed locally, and a duplicate register ("Nebenregister") that was submitted to the state for safekeeping (in case the city registry office burned down or - as happened in some places during WWII - was bombed out).

                            The Nebenregister is what is now in the state archive (Landesarchiv Nordrhein-Westfalen, Abteilung Ostwestfalen-Lippe) in Detmold. There the marriage registers have been digitized, which is what was linked to above. But the birth registers have not been digitized, and would have to be looked at in the physical archive in Detmold.

                            The Hauptregister or main register is now in the Institut für Stadtgeschichte (Institute for Urban History), which is the city archive of Gelsenkirchen (please, the "k" is not capitalized). There, too, the records have not been digitized, but as you have already found out, the staff there will look up the entries for you. So you are asking in the right place - but, depending on their staffing levels, you should expect to wait some weeks or even months for an answer (when I asked for a lookup in the city archive of nearby Wesel, it took them three months to answer).

                            Regards

                            --Carl-Henry
                            Wohnort USA

                            Kommentar

                            • DavidSkudlarek
                              Benutzer
                              • 25.03.2025
                              • 25

                              #15
                              Carl,

                              Can the public look at physical archive in Detmold?

                              David

                              Kommentar

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