Regarding my ancestor Arnzen

[conita_]

Hello to everyone here. I'm wrinting from Argentina, trying to get some information regarding my great-great grandmother.
I don't have a lot of information about her, only that her name was Catherine/Catharina. Her lastname sadly it's not very clear, as I don't have any document from her and in every birthcertificate of her sons and daughters it's spelled different (Anezon, Arnezon, Arzon)
Considering the ages of her sons and daughters, I assume she was born in the 1830's. With this little information I found a birth certificate in Ancestry that I can't download. It's from a Johana Catharina Arnzen born on July 29th of 1839 in Sassenberg. Can anyone could pass me that archive or anyone regarding her or her parents please?
Also, I'm looking for her marriage. She married my great-great grandfather, Jules Dousset who was french. As the families weren't happy about that marriage, the story is they took a ship and came to Argentina to live freely their love. I don't know where thay could have gotten married, maybe in Germany prior to their departure, niether when they came to Argentina, as I didn't find any record in our local archives. But I can tell you their children where all born in Argentina in the 1860's and 1870's.
Any kind of information anyone could give me would be truly appreciated, as I am very eager to learn more about my family history.
Thank you all in advance

[staarman]

Hi Conita,

the Ancestry stuff is refering to a fiilmnumber (868899) at FamilySearch

You can see the given information in a little tree here

Not much, but at least a starting point with a location, dates and parents to do further research.


Baptism record from St. Johannes Evangelist catholic church in Sassenberg (last line):

https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/deutschland/muenster/sassenberg-st-johannes-evangelist/KB012/?pg=77

Marriage record of her parents (#2 of 1839):

https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/deutschland/muenster/sassenberg-st-johannes-evangelist/KB013_1/?pg=29

Hope that helps

Gerd

[Tamster]

It seems like that this Johanna Catharina was married in 1874 in Germany to Louis Harry Sabey. Transcript of marriage record here.

Do you have a verified birth date of Jules Dousset? Or when they arrived in Argentina together?


EDIT:

I am just browsing a bit. Familysearch does have some birth, christening, marriage and death certicicates of the children of Catarina and Jules. In the christening of Julia Francisca and also Lucio, it is stated that Catarina is from Prussia. A small but good detail.

There also is a death certificate of Catarina which states that her parents were Jose Arneson and Agripina Lutz. As she died on 1st September 1909 and was 72 years old, her year of birth is most likely 1837/1838, which also indicates that the found Johanna Catharina Arnzen isn't the right one.

Also there is a Census Document on family search. While it does say Jules and Catarina are both 30, I guess the record was made in 1868 and published in 1869.

[conita_]

Thank you very much! I already had the birth records and the census, but not the death certificate, so it's a lot!
With this information, it's clear that the bithcertificate I found it's not from her... I don't know where to look from now on, there are many archive pages I can't access (I can only look on Family Search), to get more information about her birth and parents.

On Jules Dousset I don't have anything, niether regarding the date of their arrival to Argentina. It was common that once here, people didn't undertsand well and misswrote the surnames, this makes the searches difficult.

It seems like that this Johanna Catharina was married in 1874 in Germany to Louis Harry Sabey. Transcript of marriage record here.

Do you have a verified birth date of Jules Dousset? Or when they arrived in Argentina together?


EDIT:

I am just browsing a bit. Familysearch does have some birth, christening, marriage and death certicicates of the children of Catarina and Jules. In the christening of Julia Francisca and also Lucio, it is stated that Catarina is from Prussia. A small but good detail.

There also is a death certificate of Catarina which states that her parents were Jose Arneson and Agripina Lutz. As she died on 1st September 1909 and was 72 years old, her year of birth is most likely 1837/1838, which also indicates that the found Johanna Catharina Arnzen isn't the right one.

Also there is a Census Document on family search. While it does say Jules and Catarina are both 30, I guess the record was made in 1868 and published in 1869.

[conita_]

Thank you very much, but with the new information it seems that this wasn't her, as her parents are called Agripina Lutz and Joseph... so maybe they weren't from Sassenberg after all

Hi Conita,

the Ancestry stuff is refering to a fiilmnumber (868899) at FamilySearch

You can see the given information in a little tree here

Not much, but at least a starting point with a location, dates and parents to do further research.


Baptism record from St. Johannes Evangelist catholic church in Sassenberg (last line):

https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/deutschland/muenster/sassenberg-st-johannes-evangelist/KB012/?pg=77

Marriage record of her parents (#2 of 1839):

https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/deutschland/muenster/sassenberg-st-johannes-evangelist/KB013_1/?pg=29

Hope that helps

Gerd

[hehesani]

Hi,

In the same church book where Tamster found the births and the death, there is in 1870 the marriage of an Emilio Doucet [wrongfully indexed as Boucet - in the index of marriages it is under "D"].
Maybe he could be a brother of Jules and you could find something out about his parents (Pedro Doucet, Bernardine Teller - or maybe Jetter]? Or were there many people with the last name Doucet in this place?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y3S1-N6M?i=123&wc=M6C4-G68%3A257257901%2C257254802%2C257771001&cc=1974196

Also I saw that in the birth certificate for the son Luis Fabian, the father's first name is not Julio but rather Enrique Fabian.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XS94-57?i=134

Regards, Christine

[staarman]

Thank you very much, but with the new information it seems that this wasn't her, as her parents are called Agripina Lutz and Joseph... so maybe they weren't from Sassenberg after all

Sometimes, we find our way by using exclusion like this one. The Sassenberg connection pretty much looks like a dead end.

If mother's first name was really Agrippina, there should not be too many candidates as it is a rather unusual name. There was an Agrippina Lutz born 1841 in Kiev, Ukraine, family search says

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6883-KKH?cid=myheritage-viewer&i=5

but I can't tell anything about it as language and script here is completely unknown to me.


Good luck

Gerd

[fps]

Hi,

my knowledge of Russian is also extremely underdeveloped, but I can transliterate the Kyrillian writing.

Father: Potap Grigorjew Lutz
Mother: Xenia Trofimowa
Place: Fursy, Wassilkow, Kiev

I assume that transliteration into English writing might look a bit different.

Anyhow, I hope this helps.

[Tamster]

There was an Agrippina Lutz born 1841 in Kiev, Ukraine

She seems to young, if Catarina is born around 1837.

[staarman]

She seems to young, if Catarina is born around 1837.

You are right, it was just a blind guess related to the very unusual first name. Maybe a hint in what direction to go.

Gerd