Schröter-Forschung

[Alysson Minks]

Guten Abend, ich hätte gerne Ihre Hilfe bei meiner Recherche, es wäre meine Urgroßmutter, ihr Name ist Elisabeth Schröter, laut den mir vorliegenden Unterlagen wurde sie am 27. Mai 1901 in Deutschland geboren, ihr Vater heißt Max Schröter und Der Name der Mutter ist Max Schröter Clara Schröter (Mädchenname Clara Geppert).
Sie kamen am 5. Mai 1914 nach Amerika.

Ich habe nur diese Informationen, die ich aus Amerika bekommen habe, sonst habe ich nichts über sie

[Alysson Minks]

Hallo Alysson

Ich verschiebe das Thema in das Unterforum Auswanderung. Dort wird Dir sicher eher geholfen. Viel Erfolg!

Es grüßt der Alte Mansfelder

Vielen Dank

[Gastonian]

Hi Alysson:

I will write this in English, perhaps this is easier for you than German.

When you say they came 5 May 1914 to "America", do you mean the United States of America, or do you mean South America / Brazil?

Can you post a copy of the document showing their arrival, or (if it is on familysearch.org or ancestry.com) post a link to it?

Thanks!

--Carl-Henry

[Alysson Minks]

Hi Alysson:

I will write this in English, perhaps this is easier for you than German.

When you say they came 5 May 1914 to "America", do you mean the United States of America, or do you mean South America / Brazil?

Can you post a copy of the document showing their arrival, or (if it is on familysearch.org or ancestry.com) post a link to it?

Thanks!

--Carl-Henry

Yes, English helps me a lot, Amerika/Brazilien.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy, just a copy of her work card record here in Brazil, which contains the information I mentioned before.

[Alysson Minks]

I have it physically in my hands, here's the photo I took

[Gastonian]

Hi Alysson:

Thank you, that document already helps.

Unfortunately, Schröter (or Schröder) is a relatively common last name in Germany. With just birth date and names of parents, it will be impossible to find her birth record in Germany, as a large number of birth records have not yet been transcribed and indexed by such genealogical databases as Ancestry.com or familysearch.org. For German genealogy, you really need to know the town they came from (as you noticed in your other thread, once you said that your ancestor Minks came from Belgard, it was easy to find his birth record).

My hope was that one could find the family in a passenger list, which might list a town of origin. However, I have not found them in the departure lists from Hamburg. A lot of ships left Germany for Brazil from Bremen rather than Hamburg; unfortunately, the departure lists from Bremen for this period are not preserved. I also looked in arrival lists in Brazil. There were in fact two Schröder families who arrived in Rio de Janeiro in early May 1914, but not the correct families (see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...9L5-BTLJ?i=197 - registration with familysearch.org is required to view this, but is free). It is of course possible that Elisabeth Schröter and her parents landed at Santos or even in Montevideo (from the reference to Santa Rosa in the work document, I take it that she eventually settled in Santa Rosa in Rio Grande do Sul state, which was established by German and other settlers in 1915), but I do not have access to the passenger lists there.

Thus, the only hope is that a birth place is mentioned in another Brazilian document. This is where I have to ask you to do some digging in Brazil:

1) Do you (or perhaps one of your older relatives) know when and where Elisabeth died? If so, can you obtain her death certificate (Óbito in the registros civis do município)? Perhaps that will list a birth place.

2) Per her work card record she was married to a Mr. Minks. Do you (or perhaps one of your older relatives) know when and where she and Mr. Minks married? If so, can you obtain her marriage certificate? Perhaps that lists her birth place.

3) Presumably Elisabeth (as she was only 13 when she came to Brazil) came with her parents. Assuming that the family settled down relatively quickly (i.e., Elisabeth married and died in the same place, presumably Santa Rosa), can the death of her father Max Schröter be found in the same place? If so, might his death certificate reveal a birth place?

4) Was Elisabeth Catholic or Lutheran? In either case, if the certificates from the registros civis do not reveal her birth place, perhaps the parish records of her marriage or burial might name it (per familysearch.org, the Lutheran parish records for Santa Rosa are in the archivo do Sínodo Noroeste Rio-Grandense com sêde em Três de Maio, Rio Grande do Sul).

As far as I can tell, these records are (with the only exception of the civil records 1917-1922) not online, so you will likely have to visit the Registro Civil in person or write to them for the information.

Regards

--Carl-Henry

[BAHC]

Hallo Alysson,
Hallo Carl Henry,

es gibt noch eine weitere Quelle, wo man evtl. etwas über die Herkunft von Elisabeth Schröter finden könnte.
Einwanderer mußten Ihre Pässe in deutschen Konsulaten verlängern lassen.
Daher wurden die dort registriert.
Viele Unterlagen der Konsulate hat das Auswärtige Amt online gestellt.
Zu finden unter folgendem Link: https://politisches-archiv.diplo.de/invenio/login.xhtml

Dann -> Direktzugang: Suche ohne Anmeldung
Links oben im Kasten 'Tektonik'
-> 3. Amtsbücher
-> AB2 Matrikel und Paßregister des Deutschen Reiches
Dann links unten im Kasten 'Klassifikation' den Kontinent wählen
-> 2. Amerika
-> 2.3 Brasilien
Dort sind die einzelnen Orte der Konsulate aufgeführt.
(Eine ausführliche Anleitung in deutsch von Orestes Mallmann aus Brasilien findet man hier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhlyJ22VRT8

Auf die Schnelle habe ich in den Unterlagen aber keine Spuren von Elisabeth Schröter oder ihren Eltern um 1914/1915 finden können.

Viele Grüße
Birgit

[Alysson Minks]

Hi Alysson:

Thank you, that document already helps.

Unfortunately, Schröter (or Schröder) is a relatively common last name in Germany. With just birth date and names of parents, it will be impossible to find her birth record in Germany, as a large number of birth records have not yet been transcribed and indexed by such genealogical databases as Ancestry.com or familysearch.org. For German genealogy, you really need to know the town they came from (as you noticed in your other thread, once you said that your ancestor Minks came from Belgard, it was easy to find his birth record).

My hope was that one could find the family in a passenger list, which might list a town of origin. However, I have not found them in the departure lists from Hamburg. A lot of ships left Germany for Brazil from Bremen rather than Hamburg; unfortunately, the departure lists from Bremen for this period are not preserved. I also looked in arrival lists in Brazil. There were in fact two Schröder families who arrived in Rio de Janeiro in early May 1914, but not the correct families (see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...9L5-BTLJ?i=197 - registration with familysearch.org is required to view this, but is free). It is of course possible that Elisabeth Schröter and her parents landed at Santos or even in Montevideo (from the reference to Santa Rosa in the work document, I take it that she eventually settled in Santa Rosa in Rio Grande do Sul state, which was established by German and other settlers in 1915), but I do not have access to the passenger lists there.

Thus, the only hope is that a birth place is mentioned in another Brazilian document. This is where I have to ask you to do some digging in Brazil:

1) Do you (or perhaps one of your older relatives) know when and where Elisabeth died? If so, can you obtain her death certificate (Óbito in the registros civis do município)? Perhaps that will list a birth place.

2) Per her work card record she was married to a Mr. Minks. Do you (or perhaps one of your older relatives) know when and where she and Mr. Minks married? If so, can you obtain her marriage certificate? Perhaps that lists her birth place.

3) Presumably Elisabeth (as she was only 13 when she came to Brazil) came with her parents. Assuming that the family settled down relatively quickly (i.e., Elisabeth married and died in the same place, presumably Santa Rosa), can the death of her father Max Schröter be found in the same place? If so, might his death certificate reveal a birth place?

4) Was Elisabeth Catholic or Lutheran? In either case, if the certificates from the registros civis do not reveal her birth place, perhaps the parish records of her marriage or burial might name it (per familysearch.org, the Lutheran parish records for Santa Rosa are in the archivo do Sínodo Noroeste Rio-Grandense com sêde em Três de Maio, Rio Grande do Sul).

As far as I can tell, these records are (with the only exception of the civil records 1917-1922) not online, so you will likely have to visit the Registro Civil in person or write to them for the information.

Regards

--Carl-Henry

Good evening Carl, today I achieved a very important breakthrough for our research, I discovered that the Schroter family did not come from Germany, but from Amsterdam, and based on that I discovered that they were from Lichtenberg
Below is all the information I got...
How could I continue my research with this information? Thank you very much and have a good night.

https://noord-hollandsarchief.nl/bronnen/archieven?mivast=236&miadt=236&mizig=210&miview=inv2&milang=nl&micols=1&mires=0&micode=128&fbclid=IwAR3SShT4yEvHwFc_iw07lSawuoYf3SrX2BJ3lod0jSVl4UfcLaXbZkP_jc4#inv3t2

Number 410

[Alysson Minks]

I have some documents from the brothers who registered with the Standesamt of Dresden II, But I couldn't find hers

[Gastonian]

Hi Alysson:

Great! Let me summarize the facts that we now know.

Father: Max Paul Schröter, born ca. 1876 (age 38 in summer 1914), Lutheran, in April 1907 cigar dealer (Zigarrenhändler) in Dresden (address: Rosenstraße 86 parterre), in summer 1914 emigrated with family from Lichtenberg via Amsterdam to Rio de Janeiro

Mother: Klara/Clara Emilie nee Geppert, born ca. 1879 (age 35 in summer 1914), Lutheran

Children:
1) Elisabeth, born 27 May 1901 per Brazilian work record (consistent with recorded age of 13 in summer 1914), birth not in Dresden
2) Gerhard Karl, born 14 April 1907 in Dresden
3) Erich, born ca. 1909 (age 5 in summer 1914) [you say you have a record for him from the Standesamt Dresden II. Is it from 1909? Those on ancestry.com only go through 1907]

Additional facts from the annual Dresden address books:

Max Paul Schröter was first listed in Dresden in 1905 (as cigar dealer at Rosenstraße 86 parterre - https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht?id=5363&tx_dlf%5Bid%5D=72722&tx_dlf%5B page%5D=923) and was listed there through 1908 (https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werk.../dlf/72213/943).

What this means: Unfortunately, the Schröter family was not very stationary in Germany - they lived for only three years (1905-1908) in Dresden, and then in 1914 were in Lichtenberg before emigrating to Brazil (there are 32 places named Lichtenberg in Germany). What we need to know is where the family was living before they moved to Dresden in 1905 - hopefully that is where they were living in 1901 when Elisabeth was born.

Unfortunately the so-called Meldekarten (registry cards, in which every person who moved to Dresden had to register themselves with indication of from where they moved) for this time period were destroyed in the fire bombing of Dresden 1945.

Regards

--Carl-Henry

[ReReBe]

Hello,

another child was born to Max and Clara Schröter in Dresden:
Hildegard Liddy, born 27 July 1905 but died already at age of 8 month on 3 April 1906
ancestry.de/imageviewer/collections/5405/images/5405_6425_0222117-00260?treeid=&personid=&rc=&queryId=fa011ce4-ef2a-4d1c-b55f-14186a018a85&usePUB=true&pId=24156201
ancestry.de/imageviewer/collections/9153/images/41681_6425_0242090-00704?treeid=&personid=&rc=&queryId=fcdd463a-d824-407f-aa78-10790527a097&usePUB=true&pId=3913336
Fathers profession 1905/06 was Zimmermann = carpetenter

Regards
Reiner

[Gastonian]

Hello Reiner:

Thank you for that find! As I read the documents, in the birth record, which was reported by Max Paul himself, he called himself Zigarrenhändler (cigar dealer). It is only in the death record, which was reported by the head of the hospital where Hildegard Liddy died, that he is called a Zimmermann (carpenter) - which I thus believe is a mistake, as he was also listed as Zigarrenhändler in the 1905 and 1906 Dresden address books.

Too bad the baptismal records after 1875 are not online - it would have been nice to see where the godparents came from.

Regards

--Carl-Henry

[Alysson Minks]

I'm grateful for your help, you helped me get this information in a matter of days, much more than I managed to do in 5 months of searching.
Now my last question, how can I get the birth record or passport of my great-grandmother Elisabeth, I would need this last information, because for me to leave America for Germany to look for it, at the moment it is unfeasible.

[ReReBe]

Just now I found this immigration-list Registros de imigrantes (familysearch.org) with the Schröter-family as the second from top.

According to this list the Schröters arrived 4 July (not 5 May) 1914 at Brazil from Amsterdam with ship Tubantia and continued to Porto Alegre 15 July 1914.
Head of family MAX is carpenter and 36 years old; the departure passenger-list issued in Amsterdam states however 38 years.

I know that this is at least not the document you need Alysson, but maybe another little piece of the puzzle.

Best regards
Reiner

[Gastonian]

Now my last question, how can I get the birth record or passport of my great-grandmother Elisabeth.

Hi Alysson:

Unfortunately it is not that easy yet. We know that the family lived in Dresden in 1905-1908, and they lived in a place called Lichtenberg just before emigrating in 1914. But we don't know where they lived in 1901 when Elisabeth was born. We also don't know where Max and Clara were married, and where they both were born (which might be the place they lived in in 1901 before they moved to Dresden in 1905). Max and Clara's birth records, their marriage record, and Elisabeth's birth record don't show up in a search on Ancestry.com, because by far not all records have been digitised and put online - we are lucky that the records from Dresden are online, so we were able to find the birth records for two later children. Once we know where the family lived in 1901, you can then write to the city archive for that place to ask for the birth record.

So let me ask again:

1) Do you have Elisabeth's Brazilian marriage record? What does it say about her birthplace?
2) Do you have Elisabeth's Brazilian death record? What does it say about her birthplace?
3) Do you have Max's Brazilian death record? What does it say about his birthplace?
4) Do you have Clara's Brazilian death record? What does it say about her birthplace?

Regards

--Carl-Henry