Von Mannstein Kompagni, Regiment 84, 2. Batallion, Rudolph Hellwege

[Merete Smith]

I am Danish and I am searching my Granddad of whom I know this:

Name: Rudolph Wilhelm Heinrich Hellwege
Born: 9. december 1884 in Isensee, Kreds Neuhaus, Oste.
Parents: Johan Wilhelm Hellwege and Metta Rebekka Wolter, Niederstricher Deich (in 1913)
Married: 14. october 1913 in Haderslev to Kirsten Katrine Bertine Paulsen, daughter of Jens Paulsen and Kjestine Andersen, Stormklokken 6, Haderslev.

Before his marriage Rudolph W. H. Hellwege became father of a son, Friedrich Wilhelm Lassen, born in Haderslev 1911.

I am almost sure that Rudolph Wilhelm Heinrich Hellwege participated in WWl, but I have not been able to find out what happened to him. Did he die? Did he take his wife to Germany? Did he get other children?

What I have found is this:
Fra Des.genealogy.net
Page Number 10816
Ausgabe 840
Datum 1915-12-24
Last name Hellwege
First name Rudolf
Ort Niederstrich, Neuhaus
Liste Austausch-Gefangene aus Frankreich 5
Reg. o.ä. Infanterie-Regiment 84
Infanterie Regiment no 84
V?feldv. Rudolf Hellwege (5.komp)
Niederstricht, Neuhaus,
- bisb 1v war i. Gefglch. (R?) Vochefort seit 6.9.1914 jetzt
bei ? 2 Hamburg

And this:
Deutche Verlustlisten
Page Number 832
Ausgabe 73
Datum 1914-10-04
Last name Hellwege
First name Rudolf
Ort Niederstrich, Kreis Neuhaus
Liste Preußen 42
Reg. o.ä. Infanterie-Regiment 84

But due to my very bad skills in German Language, I have not been able to use it for anything.
So can anybody please help me find out what happened to my Granddad back in WWl and after?

[Kasstor]

Hi,

Rudolf died in Kiel in 1939, source also DES genealogy, Standesamt Kiel III No 1329/1939.
no entry for Hellwege surname in Kiel directory 1934 and 1940. maybe he lived in a neighbouring community.

Regards,

Thomas

[Kasstor]

Military entries tell us that he had been in prison in France but in 1915 he was a patient in a German hospital ( Reserve Lazarett 2 Hamburg ).

Thomas

[Svenja]

Hi

He was in the 5 Company, 2 Bataillon of the Infantery Regiment Nr. 84. As this was a Regiment of the Prussian Army, no Stammrolle (military service record) exists today. But there is more information about the history of the regiment online and in books.

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/IR_84

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanterie-Regiment_%E2%80%9Evon_Manstein%E2%80%9C_(Schleswigsches)_Nr._84

You should also look at the history of the Infanterie Brigade and the Infanterie Division, to which belonged the Infanterie Regiment Nr. 84.

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/35._Infanterie-Brigade

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/18._Division_(Alte_Armee)

He was a prisoner of war in France and was part of an exchange of prisoners of war between France and Germany. I think the place in France was Rochefort (Charente-Maritime), because Vochefort makes no sense.

Maybe you can find him in the database of the Red Cross about prisoners of war in the First World War.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search

There you can also find more information about different camps of prisoners of war in the First World War.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/Camps

You can find some more information about German prisoners of war in Rochefort if you do a google search in French language ("Rochefort prisonniers de guerre" or "prisonniers de guerre allemands" or "camp des prisonniers de guerre).

Regards
Svenja

[Svenja]

Hi Merete

I think I have just found him twice in the prisoners of war database of the Red Cross:

Hellwege Rudolf S/Maj (sergent major) 84me régiment d'infanterie, rapatrié le 24 septembre 1915

Hellwege Rudolf, s/off. (sous officier) 84e régiment d'infanterie, 5e compagnie, matricule 3

There are three numbers mentioned, with this numbers you can find the lists of the prisoners of war with more information.

P2409 Paris le 20 mars 1915: hôpital temporaire au lycée Mont de Marsan 31-12
P5990 de Bordeaux, à Lyon le 13.09.1915, en vue d'échange
P6351 de Rochefort, en vue de rapatrier 01.09.1915 (stamp 29.11.1915)

I think the hôpital temporaire was in the lycée Victor Duruy at Mont-de-Marsan as you can read in its history:

http://lyceeduruy.fr/lycee-duruy/historique-lycee/

Regards
Svenja

[Merete Smith]

Hi,

Rudolf died in Kiel in 1939, source also DES genealogy, Standesamt Kiel III No 1329/1939.
no entry for Hellwege surname in Kiel directory 1934 and 1940. maybe he lived in a neighbouring community.

Regards,

Thomas

Thank you ever so much, Thomas! How did you find out, that he died in Kiel 1939? And was he still married? I am sorry to ask so much, but I have been looking for him for more than 10 years now. I do genealogy in Denmark, but it does not seem to be that easy to search for people in Germany.

[Merete Smith]

Hi

He was in the 5 Company, 2 Bataillon of the Infantery Regiment Nr. 84. As this was a Regiment of the Prussian Army, no Stammrolle (military service record) exists today. But there is more information about the history of the regiment online and in books.

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/IR_84

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanterie-Regiment_%E2%80%9Evon_Manstein%E2%80%9C_(Schleswigsches)_Nr._84

You should also look at the history of the Infanterie Brigade and the Infanterie Division, to which belonged the Infanterie Regiment Nr. 84.

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/35._Infanterie-Brigade

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/18._Division_(Alte_Armee)

He was a prisoner of war in France and was part of an exchange of prisoners of war between France and Germany. I think the place in France was Rochefort (Charente-Maritime), because Vochefort makes no sense.

Maybe you can find him in the database of the Red Cross about prisoners of war in the First World War.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search

There you can also find more information about different camps of prisoners of war in the First World War.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/Camps

You can find some more information about German prisoners of war in Rochefort if you do a google search in French language ("Rochefort prisonniers de guerre" or "prisonniers de guerre allemands" or "camp des prisonniers de guerre).

Regards
Svenja

Thank you very much, Svenja! Unfortunately i do not speak a word French. But i should be able to read the names and use Google Translate...
I dream about finding af photo of my Granddad Rudoph, my father never knew his father.

[Kasstor]

Hi Merete,

you can see the entry in the name register here: http://des.genealogy.net/kiel_sr/search/index by typing the name.
A copy will cost a fee https://www.kiel.de/de/bildung_wisse...sonenstand.php ( site only in German ).
I think google translator will do.

Regards,

Thomas

[Merete Smith]

I do not know much of what i am doing...i am looking at
"Prisoners of the First World War"
There is a card with the name Hellwege Rudolf s/off 84 mf 5c Cie matr.3 P240 g, p 6351 and 5990
As go for reference no 6351 it speaks about Hellwege Rodolphe s/off 84 inf. en vue de rapatr. 1.9.15
What does it tell me?

[Merete Smith]

Thank you Kasstor. Can i be sure it is the right person? Is Hellwege a common name?

Regards
Merete

[Merete Smith]

In Denmark it is possible to see entries in churchbooks online as go for the census back from 1787. Some even from the 16th century.
Is that possible in Germany?

And by the way - I am so grateful for your help, let me know if you have Danish ancestors. Maybe i can help...

[Svenja]

Hi

Read my answer #5 in this thread, there I have written all details form the POW lists.

P2409 Paris le 20 mars 1915: hôpital temporaire au lycée Mont de Marsan 31-12
P5990 de Bordeaux, à Lyon le 13.09.1915, en vue d'échange (he was first at Bordeaux, then was exchanged via Lyon)
P6351 de Rochefort, en vue de rapatrier 01.09.1915 (stamp 29.11.1915) (he was first at Rochefort, then was repatriated)

I think the hôpital temporaire was in the lycée Victor Duruy at Mont-de-Marsan as you can read in its history:

http://lyceeduruy.fr/lycee-duruy/historique-lycee/

Regards
Svenja

[Kasstor]

Thank you Kasstor. Can i be sure it is the right person? Is Hellwege a common name?

Regards
Merete

The combination Rudolf Wilhelm Heinrich is the key and the age (55) . Hellwege appears in the Neuhaus area, for instance here http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/dkm_de...d/osten_ns.htm a WW I victim in Adendorf. But not in Kiel, as I wrote before.
Until the mid thirties ( from 1919 ) German death documents did not show much info, but a document from 1939 should show a living or deceased wife and the parents of the person deceased. In case of divorce there would probably be no info on a former wife.

Regards,

Thomas

[Merete Smith]

Hi

Read my answer #5 in this thread, there I have written all details form the POW lists.

P2409 Paris le 20 mars 1915: hôpital temporaire au lycée Mont de Marsan 31-12
P5990 de Bordeaux, à Lyon le 13.09.1915, en vue d'échange (he was first at Bordeaux, then was exchanged via Lyon)
P6351 de Rochefort, en vue de rapatrier 01.09.1915 (stamp 29.11.1915) (he was first at Rochefort, then was repatriated)

I think the hôpital temporaire was in the lycée Victor Duruy at Mont-de-Marsan as you can read in its history:

http://lyceeduruy.fr/lycee-duruy/historique-lycee/

Regards
Svenja

Please forgive me, if i ask stupid questions. I am so grateful for your help. I have never before worked with war material, which is a huge task, i do not speak either German or French, and with Google Translation you very often get a very odd translation. So i might make slow progress...
At the moment i go forth and back between the links you and others have given me. Everytime i have to get it translated - also when use the seach engine.
Am i right if i assume that he was wounded in Lycee Mont de Marcan, then he went to Bordeaux via Lyon, and then he was sent back home to Germany via Lyon? Then he lived in Germany untill 1939 when he died.
Thats his history in short terms. Since he's my Granddad i want to find out if he still was married and if my dad has any other (half) siblings. I do not mind about the cost, but i do not know how to do it. Do i have to travel to Germany to an archive or can i order the papers via the Internet? Do i need to fill any special forms, like in Denmark, when you ask for personal papers?

Once again thank you very much!
Merete

[Merete Smith]

The combination Rudolf Wilhelm Heinrich is the key and the age (55) . Hellwege appears in the Neuhaus area, for instance here http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/dkm_de...d/osten_ns.htm a WW I victim in Adendorf. But not in Kiel, as I wrote before.
Until the mid thirties ( from 1919 ) German death documents did not show much info, but a document from 1939 should show a living or deceased wife and the parents of the person deceased. In case of divorce there would probably be no info on a former wife.

Regards,

Thomas

Dear Thomas, thank you very much!
I have tried to use the link you gave me. Got more than 600 hits, i must be doing something wrong. Feel so stupid...
How do i get a death certificate? Where do i apply? Do i have to go there? Since it is such an old case, maybe special applications will not be needed?
Sorry for all my questions, but the goal seems nearer than ever before!

Best wishes
Merete