Looking for the birth of Michell Gronert , born 28. mars 1829 i Bayern, Tyskland

[bjornlokken]

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Hello i am looking for the birth to Michell Gronert , born 28. mars 1829 i Bayern, Tyskland .

Can anybofy help me to find his birth in the churchbook so i can who his parents was also .

The very best regards from Bjørn in Norway

[Scherfer]

Hello Bjørn,

I do not have the record for you, but this may be a trace:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/4:1:G8NF-MN4

This Familysearch tree shows a Michael Groenert with this birthdate born in
Staudach-Egerndach, Traunstein, Bavaria, Germany.

[Gastonian]

Hi:


Was Michael Protestant or Catholic?


The Catholic church for Staudach-Egerndach apparently was Grassau-Mariä Himmelfahrt, but I do not find a birth of a Michael Groenert there on 28 March 1829 (for baptisms in late March 1829, see https://dfg-viewer.de/show?tx_dlf%5B...752ee6a95c19eb)


MvH


Carl-Henry

[gki]

Hi Bjørn,

can you please indicate which information you have about Michael Groenert and where you found it?

The Bavaria of 1829 was not the same as the one we have today.

Groenert does not strike me as a particular Bavarian name.

[Gastonian]

Hei:


Zusammenfassend auf Deutsch: Das Geburtsdatum 28.03.1829 ist durch einen Grabstein belegt. In den Volkszählungen 1860 bis 1880 sowie bei der Einbürgerung 1875 wird Bayern als Herkunftsort bezeichnet. Es gibt eine wahrscheinliche Ankunft in New York City 1846; leider wird hier die Herkunft nicht näher als Bayern bezeichnet.



Details in English for Michael Groenert of Crawford County, Wisconsin:


1) Gravestone for Michael Groenert in cemetery of Prairie du Chien, Crawford County, showing birthdate of 28 March 1829, photo at findagrave.com: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...chael-groenert


2) Abstract of Naturalization record for Michael Groenert in Crawford County, 28 May 1875, indicating birth in Bavaria; date of declaration was 17 April 1854, indicating arrival in the U.S. before 1849 (declaration could only be made if already in the U.S. for five years): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...=32&cc=2046887


3) Possible immigration record, found by user animei: Michel Gronert, age 17, from Bavaria, without accompanying family, arrives in New York City 29 June 1846 from Le Havre: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVRQ-CPPN


4) Census 1860: Michael Gronard, age 31 (birth about 1829), born in Bavaria, living in Crawford County, Wisconsin: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MW9Q-VTG


5) Census 1870: Michael Granard, age 38 (birth about 1832), born in Bavaria, living in Crawford County, Wisconsin: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MN9W-2LF


6) Census 1880: Michial Gronerd, age 52 (birth about 1828), born in Bavaria, living in Crawford County, Wisconsin: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...7-9YBF-TW2?i=8, line 20


7) Census 1900: Michael Gronert, born March 1829 in Germany, living in Crawford County, Wisconsin: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MMK4-XZ1


VG / MvH


--Carl-Henry

[Gastonian]

Hallo gki:


Laut der Namensverbreitungkarte 1890 (basierend auf den Verlustlisten des 1. Weltkriegs) gab es Grönert in München, Nürnberg, und Fürth, aber auch in den folgenden seit 1814 zu Bayern gehörenden fränkischen Flecken:



Margetshöchheim, Unterfranken
Veitshöchheim, Unterfranken
Goßmannsdorf, Unterfranken
Pfarrweisach, Unterfranken
Rombach, Oberfranken


Leider scheinen dies alles (außer Rombach) katholische Dörfer im Bistum Würzburg gewesen zu sein, so daß ein Durchsuchen der Matriken nach einer passenden Taufe bis auf weiteres wohl nur im Diözesanarchiv Würzburg möglich ist.


VG


--Carl-Henry

[gki]

Ich sagte ja: Nicht wirklich Bayern.

[bjornlokken]

Thank you for helping me . Its very appricated . I am so sorry that i dont understand or speak German .

I have found the birthdaydates for Michael Gronert in FAG and Ancestry , and at FS
( Family Search )

I dont know if he was a Protestant og Catholic , but will there be a church book for Protestants as well as Catholics ?

If so his birth might be there

HI Gastonian thank you for your great information from FS .

We are also trying to find the birth of Michel Gronert's wife ; Mary Anna Mingus
( Menges ) born 12. april 1835 in Baden-Wuerttemberg . Mary Anna Mingus is how her name become in America after her emigration .

But i think her baptized name from Germany could be ; Ana Maria Menges or something like that . . In Ancestry they says she was born 12. april 1835 inBaden-Württemberg.

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree...85823345/facts

We dont know who her parents was

Agein thank you for helping me

The very best regards from Bjørn in Norway

[gki]

Hi Bjørn,

Maria Anna Menges or Mingus was certainly not born in Baden-Württemberg as that did not exist in 1835 and was only created after WWII.

[Gastonian]

Hey Bjørn:


The Kingdom of Bavaria had about 6 million inhabitants in 1900, compared to about 2 million in Norway in 1900 - so Bavaria was about three times the size of Norway. Parts of Bavaria were exclusively Catholic, other parts Protestant. These kept separate church books, which are in separate archives.



Unlike in Norway, there were no censuses (folketelling) in Bavaria in the 19th century. Very few of the church books have been indexed. And there is no central service (like Digitalarkivet in Norway) that has made all the church books available - many of the church books are not even online.


Thus, without knowing exactly which village he came from in Bavaria, it is next to impossible to find him. Imagine trying to find an Ole Hansen from "Norway" with no folketellinger and no indexes to church books!



There is a website that has looked at the casualty lists of World War I to see what family names occurred in which village around 1890. It is from this website that I pulled the names of five villages in which there was a family Grönert. However, the church books for these villages are not online and can be seen only in the archive in Würzburg, so unless you can get someone in Würzburg to look at those church books, this is unfortunately a dead end right now.


MvH


--Carl-Henry

[Gastonian]

Hello:


Before 1945 Baden and Württemberg were two separate entities.


Unfortunately, the information on Michael Groenert's wife is conflicting. According to the census of 1860, she was from "Wertemberg" (Württemberg). According to the censuses of 1870 and 1880 she was from Baden. Also according to the census of 1880, the mother of Michael Groenert's children born until 1865 was from "Wertemberg", while the mother of the later children was from Baden - so it is possible that Michael had two wives. The gravestone shows that the Mary A., wife of Michael Groenert, who died in 1890 was born 12 April 1836 (not 1835).


Bjørn, again, without knowing exactly which village she came from (for example, from a passenger list), it will be very difficult to find her.


MvH


--Carl-Henry

[bjornlokken]

Thank you for your help . If i understand you correctly it will be impossble to find those birth's .

But i did find this Mariarine Menges 19 years old from Baden migrate to America in 1856 together with a man named Michel Menges 23 years old . This Michel Menges settles and starts a family in Prairie du Chien Township in Crawford County in Wisconsin, Mary Ann Menges and her husband Michel Gronert settle in Eastman Township in Crawford County. One finds these two families in the 1880 census.

The only emigration that fits Mary Anne Menges is the one found with the departure from Le Havre in France in 1856 on the ship Fairfield, and that again means that Mary Anne Menges and her traveling companions; Michel Menges must have taken a boat that sailed from either Hamburg or Bremerhaven in Germany, and to Le Havre in France. They arrived in New York on 3 May 1856.

And it was also in Eastman Township in Crawford County in Wisconsin that Mary Ann Menges died on 22 February 1890.

The distance between Prairie du Chien Township and Eastman Township is only 12.6 US miles or 20 kilometers. Today 15 minutes by car. This supports the theory that Michel Menges and Mary Ann Menges were close relatives, possibly siblings. It has not been found who her parents were, and not her birth in the church registers for Baden-Württemberg.

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7488&h=3215171&tid=&pid=&queryId=b6a0d0f8356469a13495d13eb59ec33d&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bRa37&_phstart=successSource

Thank you so much for all your help and kindness

Best regards from Bjørn in Norway

[gki]

Thank you for your help . If i understand you correctly it will be impossble to find those birth's .

No, it will require some more work and possibly in-person visits to archives. Or just some patience until those archives will also put their records online.

But i did find this Mariarine Menges 19 years old from Baden migrate to America in 1856 together with a man named Michel Menges 23 years old . This Michel Menges settles and starts a family in Prairie du Chien Township in Crawford County in Wisconsin, Mary Ann Menges and her husband Michel Gronert settle in Eastman Township in Crawford County. One finds these two families in the 1880 census.

The only emigration that fits Mary Anne Menges is the one found with the departure from Le Havre in France in 1856 on the ship Fairfield, and that again means that Mary Anne Menges and her traveling companions; Michel Menges must have taken a boat that sailed from either Hamburg or Bremerhaven in Germany, and to Le Havre in France. They arrived in New York on 3 May 1856.

And it was also in Eastman Township in Crawford County in Wisconsin that Mary Ann Menges died on 22 February 1890.

The distance between Prairie du Chien Township and Eastman Township is only 12.6 US miles or 20 kilometers. Today 15 minutes by car. This supports the theory that Michel Menges and Mary Ann Menges were close relatives, possibly siblings. It has not been found who her parents were, and not her birth in the church registers for Baden-Württemberg.

If you check for occurrences for "Menges" at http://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Menges you will see that almost none of those are inside the kingdom of Württemberg of the time.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigreich_W%C3%BCrttemberg#/media/Datei:KgrWuerttemberg.png

Compare this to the then Großherzogtum Baden:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fherzogtum_Baden#/media/Datei:Map_of_Baden_(1819-1945).png

with quite a few Menges around Mannheim and Wiesloch.

Since you have now two potential siblings, your search will be simpler and lead to greater confidence in the correctness of a potential result. But still a lot of work.

Do you have a record of the marriage? Knowing their confession would really help.

[bjornlokken]

Do you have a record of the marriage? Knowing their confession would really help.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your answer and your positivity . Tomorrow i will try to see if it's possible to find their marriage in Wisconsin , but i need some time . Meanwhile in the only census we got ; the 1880 census for Eastman Township in Crawford County in WI - According to this census their first children born was their Michael was 20 years old in this census , so he must have been born abt. 1860 , and i guess his parents must have been married about 1858 .

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6742/images/4244705-00696?pId=19862216

We will see if we can find her in the 1870 - 1860 census also

Will let you know our eventually find .

The very best regards from Bjørn in Norway

[Svenja]

Hi Björn

If you don't find the marriage in Wisconsin on ancestry, maybe you will find it on familysearch. They have church records of many US-States which can only be found if you search via their catalogue. Did you already find their death certificates and/or obituaries in Wisconsin? Maybe you can find the place of birth on their death certificates or obituaries.

Why did you delete your other thread about Mingus, Menges in Baden-Württemberg, there was important information which we need to know to be able to help you in your further search.

Best regards

Svenja