Johann Friedrich August Wilhelm 1821/1829 Altsorge

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  • Lhgj02
    Benutzer
    • 11.03.2024
    • 11

    #16
    Hello Davido!


    I've had a busy week so apologies for the late reply and causing confusion regarding the dates and relations. I hope it's okay if I write in English in this reply.

    Yes - Pauline Bertha Auguste Wilhelm is his daughter of Johann Friedrich August Wilhelm. She is the sister of Johann Julius August Wilhelm my direct ancestor. (I sometimes confuse the names) I've attached his biography from a village book that says he served in the military.

    I've been trying to research more about Pauline to see if I can find connections about Johann Frederich August but it has proven difficult to do so.

    I've attached immigration records and a screenshots of my family tree.



    Zitat von Davido Beitrag anzeigen
    Ich muss meine eigene Aussage hier mal kurz korrigieren, nachdem ich mir die Duplikate Neu-Anspach etwas genauer angesehen habe (es sind dort zwei Gemeinden, nämlich die evangelisch-reformierte und die hier relevante evangelische, miteinander vermischt): Es fehlen von der evang. Gemeinde dort die Heiraten 1817 bis 1823, so dass ich nun doch davon ausgehe, dass die Heirat dort stattgefunden hat.

    (Mit weiteren Erkenntnissen warte ich geduldig, ob und wann die Anfragerin die von mir in #14 erbetenen Dokumente liefert; es soll ja hier immer möglichst auf ein Geben und Nehmen von Informationen hinauslaufen.)

    Davido
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    • Lhgj02
      Benutzer
      • 11.03.2024
      • 11

      #17
      For Johann Frederich August Wilhelm there is conflicting information on the year of his birth. His immigration records state his birth is 1829 but his marraige says 1821. And Gerrin as residence. I've spent hours and days going through the archives on https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/ family search, myheritage, basiapl, and poznan project but he doesnt exist. Even on his grave nothing is confirmed - its very strange. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/119725249/f-wilhelm

      I am attaching his wife, Henriette Jabusch's certificate. Her name is also written as Gabusa.
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      • Davido
        Erfahrener Benutzer
        • 31.12.2015
        • 351

        #18
        Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
        I've attached immigration records and a screenshots of my family tree.
        Yes, I found the Hamburg passenger list on Ancestry as well, but I still don't know from what document(s) you gathered the birth and death dates. To quote your post:

        Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
        died on 12 May 1890; cause of death - can't translate cause; buried on 13 May 1890
        This is the document I would like to see as it is the only thing I could not find. Or is it just secondary information you got from somebody else's tree?

        Davido
        Forschungsinteressen vor allem in Pommerellen (Kreise Schlochau, Konitz, Bütow), in Posen-Westpreußen (Kreise Czarnikau, Deutsch Krone) und in Berlin.

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        • Davido
          Erfahrener Benutzer
          • 31.12.2015
          • 351

          #19
          Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
          For Johann Frederich August Wilhelm there is conflicting information on the year of his birth. His immigration records state his birth is 1829 but his marraige says 1821.
          By the way, his marriage does not say 1821. I have posted his marriage above; as you can see, the first number of his age is unreadable on the digitised version, so it could either be 21 years 9 months or 31 years 9 months. The FamilySearch index you have been using has arbitrarily decided it is 31, probably because they thought he should be older than his wife, while obviously what it says is 21 (as confirmed by his confimation date). Never rely on any index; always consult the original document.

          Being 21 years 9 months in April 1852 means he would have been born in July 1830, which is almost correct (i.e. only off by one year).

          Davido
          Forschungsinteressen vor allem in Pommerellen (Kreise Schlochau, Konitz, Bütow), in Posen-Westpreußen (Kreise Czarnikau, Deutsch Krone) und in Berlin.

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          • Lhgj02
            Benutzer
            • 11.03.2024
            • 11

            #20
            Oh...thank you for this advise! His birth and death date are information transcribed by the local church in fall creek. I've asked for the original document but nobody responds:

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            • Lhgj02
              Benutzer
              • 11.03.2024
              • 11

              #21
              Oh...thank you for this advice! His birth and death dates are information transcribed by the local church in Fall Creek. I've asked for the original document but nobody responds:



              Davido[/QUOTE]

              Zitat von Davido Beitrag anzeigen
              By the way, his marriage does not say 1821. I have posted his marriage above; as you can see, the first number of his age is unreadable on the digitised version, so it could either be 21 years 9 months or 31 years 9 months. The FamilySearch index you have been using has arbitrarily decided it is 31, probably because they thought he should be older than his wife, while obviously what it says is 21 (as confirmed by his confimation date). Never rely on any index; always consult the original document.

              Being 21 years 9 months in April 1852 means he would have been born in July 1830, which is almost correct (i.e. only off by one year).

              Davido

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              • Davido
                Erfahrener Benutzer
                • 31.12.2015
                • 351

                #22
                Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
                Oh...thank you for this advise! His birth and death date are information transcribed by the local church in fall creek.
                Actually, according to the page you linked to, it was transcribed not by the church but by Laura Kaatz, who is quite active and easy to find on Facebook in the relevant genealogy groups. As for the records themselves, you don't need to request them from the church because they have been filmed by the Mormons and you can watch them online after logging in:

                Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                In any case, as it seems from the transcription that his burial record indeed lists his birth date as 9 Jul 1829, the attached baptism is without doubt him. He was born in Anspach, Kreis Friedeberg Neumark.

                The interesting thing about the baptism is that it was a "Nothtauf" which is usually only performed on children who are about to die. Which he obviously was not.

                Davido
                Angehängte Dateien
                Forschungsinteressen vor allem in Pommerellen (Kreise Schlochau, Konitz, Bütow), in Posen-Westpreußen (Kreise Czarnikau, Deutsch Krone) und in Berlin.

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                • Lhgj02
                  Benutzer
                  • 11.03.2024
                  • 11

                  #23
                  This is amazing!!!!!

                  Ich suche hier nach das Duplikate für 1829 aber kann nicht ihnes name finden. https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/...#odsylacz_opis

                  auf das Bild Sie mir geschickt hat, sind seine Eltern schreiben? Ist es schwer zu lesen.

                  "Nottauf" he is very lucky - and so am I.


                  Zitat von Davido Beitrag anzeigen
                  Actually, according to the page you linked to, it was transcribed not by the church but by Laura Kaatz, who is quite active and easy to find on Facebook in the relevant genealogy groups. As for the records themselves, you don't need to request them from the church because they have been filmed by the Mormons and you can watch them online after logging in:

                  Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                  In any case, as it seems from the transcription that his burial record indeed lists his birth date as 9 Jul 1829, the attached baptism is without doubt him. He was born in Anspach, Kreis Friedeberg Neumark.

                  The interesting thing about the baptism is that it was a "Nothtauf" which is usually only performed on children who are about to die. Which he obviously was not.

                  Davido

                  Kommentar

                  • Lhgj02
                    Benutzer
                    • 11.03.2024
                    • 11

                    #24
                    Ich denke ich hab der son von Johann Frederich August Wilhelm - Julius August Juni 1853 gefunden. Ich wusste, dass er aus Altsorge kommt aber seine Geburtsurkunde nie gefunden.

                    obwohl Johann Frederichs Nachname hier Kühn ist.

                    Meine DNA stimmt überein mit der Nachkommen von Pauline Berthas (schwester von Julius) und unsere
                    geteilte Übereinstimmungen haben nachnamen Friske und Kühn/kuehn.
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                    • Davido
                      Erfahrener Benutzer
                      • 31.12.2015
                      • 351

                      #25
                      Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
                      Ich suche hier nach das Duplikate für 1829 aber kann nicht ihnes name finden. https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/...#odsylacz_opis
                      Die Duplikate Neu Anspach sind hier: https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/...d_serii=163894

                      Die Taufe ist im zweiten Band (Signatur 66/81/0/22.5/12193) auf Bild 14.

                      Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
                      auf das Bild Sie mir geschickt hat, sind seine Eltern schreiben? Ist es schwer zu lesen.
                      Die Eltern sind "Hausmann und Maurergeselle Joh. Friedrich Wilhelm" und "Dorathea Carolina Kintopfen". In späteren Einträgen mit normalisierterer Schreibung ist ihr Nachname "Kühntopf" oder "Kühntop".

                      Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
                      Ich denke ich hab der son von Johann Frederich August Wilhelm - Julius August Juni 1853 gefunden. Ich wusste, dass er aus Altsorge kommt aber seine Geburtsurkunde nie gefunden.

                      obwohl Johann Frederichs Nachname hier Kühn ist.
                      Das ist ein bisschen die (flapsig gesagt) "amerikanische Art", Genealogie zu treiben, bei der man sich einfach irgendjemand aussucht, der Ähnlichkeiten mit der Zielperson aufweist, egal ob Name oder Ort überhaupt passen. Ich würde davon dringend abraten.

                      Der von dir gefundene Johann August Julius Kühn, geboren 15.6.1853 in Neu-Erbach, ist der Sohn von Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Kühn und Henriette Fritsche.

                      Eigentlich suchst du aber Johann August Julius Wilhelm, geboren 29.6.1853 in Schneidemühlchen, Sohn von Johann Friedrich August Wilhelm und Henriette Jabbusch, der außer zufälligen Namensähnlichkeiten nichts mit diesem Kühn zu tun hat. Die Taufe ist angehängt.

                      Davido
                      Angehängte Dateien
                      Forschungsinteressen vor allem in Pommerellen (Kreise Schlochau, Konitz, Bütow), in Posen-Westpreußen (Kreise Czarnikau, Deutsch Krone) und in Berlin.

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                      • Lhgj02
                        Benutzer
                        • 11.03.2024
                        • 11

                        #26
                        Apologies again for the late response and thank you so much for your support with this! Am I incorrect to assume these documents haven't been made "digital" on family search or ancestry? I've been wondering why they still don't show up in the search. If this is the case these files give me a good place to look further 😊

                        In the case of the incorrect family, from my experience, I've often see instances where birth dates and such have been inaccurate and I've had to broaden my searches. I know Americans are prone to inputting any information they find similar but I've really worked hard to avoid this. This is why I haven't been able to find his parents or birth documents in the last 3 years - I don't like to assume 😅

                        You've been incredibly helpful. I'm grateful to have had this mystery solved!

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                        • Davido
                          Erfahrener Benutzer
                          • 31.12.2015
                          • 351

                          #27
                          Zitat von Lhgj02 Beitrag anzeigen
                          Apologies again for the late response and thank you so much for your support with this! Am I incorrect to assume these documents haven't been made "digital" on family search or ancestry? I've been wondering why they still don't show up in the search. If this is the case these files give me a good place to look further 😊
                          There are basically four sets of sources that I used (and that you need) to research your family (i.e. Friedrich Wilhelm and his wife Caroline Kühntopf, plus their two sons Friedrich Wilhelm Jr., married to Henriette Jabbusch, and Ferdinand Wilhelm, first married to Rosine Wendt, then to Wilhelmine Gill).

                          First there are the duplicates for Neu Anspach, which you know are on szukajwarchiwach.

                          Then around 1830 the family moved to Schneidemühlchen, for which you need the duplicates for Altsorge.

                          Friedrich Wilhelm Jr. and Henriette Jabbusch then moved around 1858 to Alt Latzig, then to Corda, then back to Alt Latzig, then to Benglewo/Bengdorf, and later apparently to Gerrin. For all these places you need the duplicates for Filehne.

                          And finally, starting at the end of 1874 (where all duplicates end), you need the civil registers for Filehne-Landbezirk I and II to bridge the gap to 1880/1884 when your branch of the family emigrated to the US.

                          The civil registers mentioned have not been digitized yet, so you either have to wait until they are or pay the archive to digitize them.

                          The duplicates Altsorge and Filehne have been digitized by FamilySearch; the caveats being that you may have to visit one of their research centers to look at them, and they have forgot to digitize the volumes for 1856 to 1865. Anyway, the others are all part of this collection: https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/71854

                          Davido
                          Forschungsinteressen vor allem in Pommerellen (Kreise Schlochau, Konitz, Bütow), in Posen-Westpreußen (Kreise Czarnikau, Deutsch Krone) und in Berlin.

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