Ich habe ein paar Fragen über Banat-Schwaben in der österreichischen Armee und darüber, ob meine Fa

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  • Greg2344
    Benutzer
    • 12.04.2018
    • 5

    Ich habe ein paar Fragen über Banat-Schwaben in der österreichischen Armee und darüber, ob meine Fa

    Englisch ist meine erste Sprache, sorry für irgendwelche Fehler!

    Meine Familie kam aus Buzias, Timisoara, Österreich-Ungarn. Wie Sie sehen können, waren sie Banater Schwaben. Ich habe mich gefragt, ob irgendwelche Banat-Schwaben in ww1 gekämpft haben? Oder irgendwelche Österreicher Kriege vor ww1?

    Auch als Banat-Schwaben sich dem Militär anschlossen, schlossen sie sich österreichisch-deutschen Regimentern oder osteuropäischen rumänischen / ungarischen Regimentern an?

    Eine andere Frage, die ich habe, ist, ob die Banater Schwaben als Österreicher betrachtet wurden oder ob sie von Österreichern herabgesehen wurden.

    Ich habe gelesen, dass viele der Banater Schwaben aus Timisoara von österreichischen Militärs und zivilen Gouverneuren abstammen. Ich denke, es wäre sehr cool und interessant, wenn ich von einem österreichischen Soldaten abstamme. Wenn ihr mir helfen könntet, würde ich es sehr sehr schätzen!

    Mein großer Urgroßvater John (Johannes) George Hilger wurde am 25. Mai 1883 in Buzias Timisoara Österreich-Ungarn geboren. Er emigrierte 1903 nach Amerika. Sein Vater wurde auch Johannes genannt (Johannes möglicherweise in Deutsch?), Aber ich habe keine Informationen auf ihn wirklich. Ich weiß, dass mein Ur-Urgroßvater John George Hilger eine Frau namens Anna Hilger heiratete (Mädchenname Hilger zu komisch genug ...), die 1885 in Österreich Ungarn geboren wurde, möglicherweise Hodoni, aber ich bin mir nicht sicher.



    Hier ist ein Link zu meinem ancestry.com Profi auf John Hilger. Ich habe eine Sackgasse erreicht und kann nicht weiter an ihm vorbeikommen, um zu sehen, woher seine Familie vor Timisoara kam oder ob er eine Familie in der österreichischen Armee hatte.

    Noch einmal jede Hilfe, die Sie mir geben können, um mir zu helfen, mehr über mein Erbe und Familie zu lernen, wird so sehr geschätzt!
  • Anna Sara Weingart
    Erfahrener Benutzer
    • 23.10.2012
    • 15111

    #2
    Zitat von Greg2344 Beitrag anzeigen
    ... ob die Banater Schwaben als Österreicher betrachtet wurden oder ob sie von Österreichern herabgesehen wurden....
    Hello Greg
    You use the term "Banater Schwaben". This term first appeared in the 20th century, created to describe the origin of some of the German settlers, who came to the Banat in the 18th century: Swabia. But only a part of the settlers came from Swabia. And we also don't know, if the settlers, who came from this region, which we today describe with the word "Swabia", had themselves called Swabians (Schwaben).
    What we do know is, that, if the German settlers were asked from where they came, they named the name of the sovereign state of their origin. But a state with the name Swabia didn't exist in the 18th century. Instead, the countries of origin were called "Württemberg", "Nassau", "Baden-Durlach" etc.

    The settlers from (for example) Württemberg themselves called "Württemberger" and not "Swabians", even though Württemberg was part of a greater region, which was sometimes called Swabia. When the Württemberger emigrated in the 18th century to the sovereign state of Austria, they received a passport from their new state. From this moment they were citizen of the state of Austria.

    Conclusion: They had become Austrians with the same rights like all other citizen. The term "Banater Schwaben" is a brainchild of the 20th century.
    Viele Grüße

    Kommentar

    • Anna Sara Weingart
      Erfahrener Benutzer
      • 23.10.2012
      • 15111

      #3
      Zitat von Greg2344 Beitrag anzeigen
      ... Er emigrierte 1903 nach Amerika ....
      If you are wondering about his motivation to emigrate: the people of the Banat had been forced to become Hungarian-speaker, and therefore to loose their German identity.
      Since the national revolution of the Hungarians in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the mid of the 19th century, the Hungarians had reached more power in their part of the empire. The Banat was in the Hungarian part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Learning Hungarian was made mandatory for the German childs. All lessons at school were given in Hungarian.
      The German people in the Banat in the beginning of the 19th century lived in a German state, they had German schools. But at the end of the century it had changed, the Germans in the Banat lived in a Hungarian state with a language they didn't understand and didn't like. Therefore, it was easier to reache social increase in the USA.
      Zuletzt geändert von Anna Sara Weingart; 12.04.2018, 15:05.
      Viele Grüße

      Kommentar

      • Greg2344
        Benutzer
        • 12.04.2018
        • 5

        #4
        Ah cool you understand English!

        Zitat von Anna Sara Weingart Beitrag anzeigen
        If you are wondering about his motivation to emigrate: the people of the Banat had been forced to become Hungarian-speaker, and therefore to loose their German identity.
        Since the national revolution of the Hungarians in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the mid of the 19th century, the Hungarians had reached more power in their part of the empire. The Banat was in the Hungarian part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Learning Hungarian was made mandatory for the German childs. All lessons at school were given in Hungarian.
        The German people in the Banat in the beginning of the 19th century lived in a German state, they had German schools. But at the end of the century it had changed, the Germans in the Banat lived in a Hungarian state with a language they didn't understand and didn't like. Therefore, it was easier to reache social increase in the USA.
        I’m glad you understand English because google translate German is probably horrible. I’ll post my post again but in Bengali dh as it may be easier for you to understand then my horrendous German.


        My family came from Buzias, Timisoara, Austria-Hungary. As you can see, they were Banat Swabians. I was wondering if any Banat Swabians fought in ww1? Or any Austrian wars before ww1?
        Even when Banat Swabians did join the military, did they join Austrian-German regiments or Eastern Romanian / Hungarian regiments?
        Another question I have is whether the Banat Swabians were considered pure Austrians or whether they were looked down on by Austrians for being Eastern Europeanized germans?

        I have read that many of the Banat Swabians from Timisoara are descended from Austrian military and civil governors. I think it would be very cool and interesting if I was descended from an Austrian soldier or governor. If you could help me, I would really appreciate it!
        My great great-grandfather John (Johannes) George Hilger was born on May 25, 1883 in Buzias Timisoara Austria-Hungary. He emigrated to America in 1903. His father was also called John (Johannes possibly in German?), But I do not really have any information on him. I know that my great-great-grandfather John George Hilger married a woman named Anna Hilger (maiden name Hilger too funny enough ...) who was born in Austria in 1885, possibly Hodoni, but I'm not sure.

        Here is a link to my ancestry.com professional on John Hilger. I have reached a dead end and can not get past him to see where his family came from before Timisoara or if he had a family in the Austrian army.
        Once again any help you can give me to help me learn more about my heritage and family is so much appreciated!

        Kommentar

        • Greg2344
          Benutzer
          • 12.04.2018
          • 5

          #5
          *but in English not Bengali. Lol sorry I’m on my phone trying this.

          Kommentar

          • Greg2344
            Benutzer
            • 12.04.2018
            • 5

            #6
            Zitat von Anna Sara Weingart Beitrag anzeigen
            If you are wondering about his motivation to emigrate: the people of the Banat had been forced to become Hungarian-speaker, and therefore to loose their German identity.
            Since the national revolution of the Hungarians in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the mid of the 19th century, the Hungarians had reached more power in their part of the empire. The Banat was in the Hungarian part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Learning Hungarian was made mandatory for the German childs. All lessons at school were given in Hungarian.
            The German people in the Banat in the beginning of the 19th century lived in a German state, they had German schools. But at the end of the century it had changed, the Germans in the Banat lived in a Hungarian state with a language they didn't understand and didn't like. Therefore, it was easier to reache social increase in the USA.
            Thanks so much for the reply that is Very interesting. I did read a bit about that, tha after 1890 Hungary started Magyarizing really hard. I also read that banat Sherman’s left for America to go and make some money with the goal of returning to Hungary able to buy land, but most just ended up staying in America.

            Kommentar

            • carinthiangirl
              Erfahrener Benutzer
              • 12.08.2006
              • 1608

              #7
              After the peace of Passarowitz on 21 July 1718, the Banat was joined after 164 years of Turkish rule of the Habsburg monarchy and placed under the imperial crown and chamber domain of the Imperial Government of Vienna. It began the Habsburg colonization of the Banat by the so-called Schwabenzüge. Between 1782 and 1821 Germans were settled here...........

              ......On June 4, 1920, the Banat was divided into three parts as a result of the Treaty of Trianon. The largest, eastern part, to which Busiasch belonged, fell to the Kingdom of Romania......





              Honvéd (k.u. Landwehr) was the Military from the Hungarian Part of the A-H Empire:
              Zuletzt geändert von carinthiangirl; 27.04.2018, 23:03.

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              • carinthiangirl
                Erfahrener Benutzer
                • 12.08.2006
                • 1608

                #8
                Hilger in Deutsch-Zerne und Zichydorf:




                This person has Hilger at her ancestors list.
                Hilger in Lovrin, Banat
                Hilger in Tschanad, Banat


                The name Hilger is in Austria to find (41 phonebook results):
                16 in Upper Austria/ Oberösterreich
                16 in Vienna/ Wien
                4 in Lower Austria/ Niederösterreich
                4 in Styria/ Steiermark
                2 in Tyrol/ Tirol
                1 in Burgenland

                The name is not typically Austrian.

                In Germany 246 Business and more then 999 results for private persons!
                ll▶ Hilger gesucht? Richtige Adressen und Telefonnummern finden! 876 Einträge zu Hilger mit aktuellen Kontaktdaten, Öffnungszeiten und Bewertungen ☎ Das Telefonbuch - Ihre Nr. 1 für Adressen und Telefonnummern ✓
                Zuletzt geändert von carinthiangirl; 27.04.2018, 22:28.

                Kommentar

                • carinthiangirl
                  Erfahrener Benutzer
                  • 12.08.2006
                  • 1608

                  #9
                  Hilger mentioned here in the PDF-file "The emigration from the kurkölnisch Sauerland at the Theresian Banat settlement 1763-1772":
                  "Ansetzung im Banat: Der Auswanderer wurde offenbar in Tschanad angesetzt l34. • 11.1.1780 war Hermann Fulmeth Zeuge bei der Eheschließung von Caspar Hilger.
                  Assignment in the Banat: The emigrant was apparently settled in Chanad l34. • 11.1.1780 Hermann Fulmeth was witness to the marriage of Caspar Hilger."

                  Of interest possible info for Tschanad from page 41 on:

                  I do it into translator, think it is understandable.
                  -> Einige Wochen später gegen Ende Juni d. J. setzte erneut starker westfälischer Zustrom mit insgesamt 14 Familien, besonders aus dem Hochsauerland, ein. Je 1 Familie kam aus Fredeburg: Adam Höm- berg, aus Heiminghausen: Joh. Feldmann, 2 Familien aus Nierentrop: Franz Bette, Math.Bette, Familien aus Niedersorpe: Joh. Henderkes, Franz Schauerte. Je 1 Familie kam aus Oberfleckenberg: Franz Laes, aus Winkhausen: Franz Schauerte; aus Kückelheim b. Eslohe kamen 3 Familien: Heim. Tillmann, Anton Poggei, Anton Wagner. Mit diesem Zuge kam noch je 1 Familie aus Schönholthausen: Joh. Peter Conele, aus Felbecke: Franz Gockel, der nach kurzem Aufenthalt in die alte Heimat zurückkehrte, aus Serkenrode b. Schliprüthen: Christoph Badehaus, aus der Stadt Werl: Bernhard Hilger, sowie möglicherweise kurzzeitig eine Familie aus Isingheim b. Eslohe: Eberhard Schulte. Diese Großgruppe schloß den sauerländischen Zufluß jener Jahre ab. Knapp 50 sauerländische Familien waren in Tschanad angesetzt worden.
                  A few weeks later towards the end of June of same year once again started a strong Westphalian influx with a total of 14 families, especially from Hochsauerland. One family each came from Fredeburg: Adam Hömberg, from Heiminghausen: Joh. Feldmann, two families from Nierentrop: Franz Bette, Math.Bette, families from Niedersorpe: Joh. Henderkes, Franz Schauerte. One family each came from Oberfleckenberg: Franz Laes, from Winkhausen: Franz Schauerte; from Kückelheim by Eslohe came 3 families: Heim. Tillmann, Anton Poggei, Anton Wagner. With those still came 1 family from Schönholthausen: Johann Peter Conele, from Felbecke: Franz Gockel, who returned after a short stay in the old homeland, from Serkenrode b. Schliprüthen: Christoph Badehaus, from the city of Werl: Bernhard Hilger, and possibly a family from Isingheim by Eslohe: Eberhard Schulte. This large group completed the Sauerland inflow of those years. Almost 50 families from the Sauerland region were sent to Tschanad.

                  So this could be YOUR info
                  From Werl to Tschanad: Bernhard Hilger (search also to find possible more on other pages, other places)



                  Here a Link with the info in English. The part for Hilger imigration to Tschanad/ Cenad is at: "The first clear immigration from Sauerland took place in 1764,......."


                  -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerland
                  The Duchy of Westphalia was a territory in the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation and belonged until 1803 to Kurköln. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogtum_Westfalen
                  -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Westphalia

                  TSCHANAD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenad
                  Zuletzt geändert von carinthiangirl; 27.04.2018, 23:46.

                  Kommentar

                  • carinthiangirl
                    Erfahrener Benutzer
                    • 12.08.2006
                    • 1608

                    #10
                    Page 155: https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-bamberg/...ngOCRseA1b.pdf
                    Werl
                    Surname: Hilger
                    Emigrants in Vienna: Hilger, Bemard, May 29, 1765 (the emigrants were registered there and came via ship on Danube)
                    Viennese indication of home: Statwerl from Westphalen (that means town Werl)
                    Closest family circle: Johann Bernhard Hilger was baptized on 27.11.1726 as son of the married couple Werner Hilger and Anna Maria Bost. He married on April 28, 1750 to Werl Anna Angela Köster. At least 5 children were enslaved to the marriage: baptisms - Anton 10.8.1751, Kaspar Eberhard 25.10.1753, Maria Franziska 28.6.1758, Maria Agnes Wilhelmine 19.12.1760, Maria Barbara Franziska 12.7.1763.
                    Head count of the emigrated family: 7 persons
                    Economic situation: Johann Bernhard Hilger lived in 1759 in Werl as Beilieger? and Tanner under number 315 at the widow Kunstmeisterin Hellmig: as a tax he paid the average rate of 24 Gr.
                    Settlement in the Banat: The emigrant was settled in Chanad. 24.6.1765 "Bemardus Hilger ex Csanad" witnessed a Westphalian marrying. 27.1.1778 Bemard Hilliger died 50 years old. 24.11.1779 died Anna Katharina Hiligerin, 25 years old. Kaspar Hilliger, the son, married at Chanad: 27.1.1777 Anna Katharina Wolf, 11.1.1780 Anna Margarete Kliklerin, 24.11.1795 a Katharina Scherin. Today around 12 families in Tschanat have the name Hilger.
                    Zuletzt geändert von carinthiangirl; 29.04.2018, 18:26.

                    Kommentar

                    • Flominator
                      Erfahrener Benutzer
                      • 06.05.2018
                      • 456

                      #11
                      Zitat von Greg2344 Beitrag anzeigen
                      I was wondering if any Banat Swabians fought in ww1?
                      Why not? They belonged to the Austro Hungarian Empire.

                      Maybe you can find them at verlustlisten.de at the link labeled "(Österr.-Ungarische Verlustlisten 1. WK)."
                      Dauersuche: FN Steurenthaler und Meszecsov sowie jegliche Verweise auf den Ort Hinterzarten

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